Lianne Shinton (00:01)

Hey everybody and welcome. So I'm Lianne Shinton from Automation Dogs. Welcome to my podcast where I commonly speak with dog trainers to find out about what they have going on in their area and how they're helping people. And then I also help dog trainers helping them to capture, nurture, and close more clients that they can help. So today I am interviewing from MCK9 Training in Texas, Cameron Davis. Welcome Cameron.

Cameron (00:29)

Hello, hello, how are you?

Lianne Shinton (00:32)

I'm good, good. How's the weather over there today in Texas?

Cameron (00:34)

It is a

cold cloudy day.

Lianne Shinton (00:39)

Okay, well I'm in Kansas and it's not too bad, but yeah, it's winter.

Cameron (00:41)

It's 50, I mean, it's Texas cold.

It's 50 degrees. So we will, I think that's cold, but it's cold to us.

Hahaha

Lianne Shinton (00:51)

Yeah, I

totally get it. So ⁓ I know that ⁓ I've known you for a while and today I wanted to kind of dig in and talk about like how you got started in dog training and what MCK9 is all about. So would you mind just sharing a little bit about you and introduce yourself?

Cameron (01:09)

Yeah. ⁓

so like my dad said, I'm Cameron. I've been training dogs. It's all started back in high school. I will be old. ⁓ a lot of my clients, a lot older than me. they get mad when I say this, I'll be 30 in April this year, ⁓ which will actually, which will mark, ⁓ 10 years of business. Actually, I started right after got back from Michael's school. but I

Lianne Shinton (01:28)

Yeah, you're a baby.

Cameron (01:37)

My parents asked me in high school when I was a freshman, what would keep my grades up? And I said a dog. They were like, what? Why do you want a dog? And I was like, I want a dog. And so they got me a Doberman off Craigslist. I know, I know, but that's where I got one. And from then it's just been dogs ever since. I did an apprenticeship with my mentor Clay.

at high school going into my senior year and then after that I tried college for a little bit. And so community college was going to be with counting of all things. And I was like, no, this isn't for me. And luckily I had a very good support system. And my parents were like, whatever you want to do, you want to do the dog thing, do the dog thing. And so I left and did an apprenticeship with Jonathan Katz. And then after that apprenticeship, I went to the Michaelville School for Dog Trainers in California. And then in 2016,

That was in January 2016. I got back from April, May, April, May 2016. I started MCKNIT training, which where I'm located is Montgomery, Texas. But it's also Montgomery County. A lot of MC stands for Montgomery County. And in fact, it does not. It actually stands for MC, which is my middle name. I...

in high school or just in the school system. It was Cameron MC Davis. I do have a long name and that's just what I love.

Lianne Shinton (03:14)

So your middle name is...

Cameron (03:15)

It's Mac Carl,

M-A-C-K Carl. And so, yeah, I'm named after both my grandfathers.

Lianne Shinton (03:19)

Okay, cool, that's a cool middle name.

Cool, I like the dog trainer shirt that lets people know you're a dog trainer so that they can come up and talk to you.

Cameron (03:29)

Oh yeah, it's always on.

I always have it on. There's times where I'm like, okay, I'm going out with family, okay, I'm not. I may have the business hat on, but I'll try not to put the shirts on now, because people will try to stop and talk to me about stuff. I'm like, okay, I'm putting dad hat, or husband hat on, not business owner hat on, so I have to catch myself. And.

What's crazy is that one of the grandfathers I named after is my mom's dad. ⁓ He bred and trained Dobermans after the Korean War. So I kind of got all of that from him and just wanted to be around dogs. Very, very old school with the stuff that they would talk about, he would tell me. ⁓ But it was very cool to hear his stories of, you know, during the war, was Captain Hag of Doberman. That's why he came back and started reading them and stuff like that.

Lianne Shinton (04:28)

So that's where I love Doberman's, that's like an awesome smart dog.

Cameron (04:29)

I don't have one out of out of my six. I

do not have one ⁓ I am actually debating and You know as dog trainers we tell people you gotta do what's right by the dog and Get the the best dog for your lifestyle and I just the lifestyle and then right now of course me of course I can love a Malin wall or Dutch Shepherd you know Doberman but

I have a, to be a one year old son, a four year old, then tomorrow an 11 year old and having a puppy mowing lawn and touchy, just with how I have clients and stuff. like, you know what? I think it's time to hang that breed up for a little bit and I will get one later. And so now, believe it or not, I'm looking at copper spaniels and boykins and

Completely changing looking at breeds. I never ever thought I would ever get into Just something more Just you go into the for clients to approach me Having something like that versus walking the street with the Doberman or a mountain wall But something I can stop fun with that's my big thing. They gotta be able to do stuff. I can't any

Lianne Shinton (05:44)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Cameron (05:57)

cannot be a dagun terrier.

Lianne Shinton (06:03)

think it's ⁓ something good for people to hear too, that you're really thinking about the right breed for a family and to be around a lot of people. And that's something that I think a lot of folks, they just maybe look at a picture and they're like, well, I want a Tibetan Mastiff. I live in an apartment. ⁓ And there's so much research that we can do now.

and talk to someone like Cameron to make sure that we're finding the right breed, hopefully for the checks, all the boxes for whether we're single or we have a family or we want a dog to be athletic with us and go jogging with us. Like there's going to be a better choice and probably a not so good choice.

Cameron (06:50)

I mean it, believe in life.

thinking of dogs, trying to convince people like, hey, because it is a day and age right now, you're gonna spend money on a good puppy. And that's a good thing, not a bad thing. Because you know what you're going to get. have people that care about their puppies and their dogs that they're gonna tell you, you're gonna get this from this, from this, from these two, you're gonna see this, from those two you'll see this, versus.

Lianne Shinton (07:10)

Mm-hmm.

Cameron (07:25)

Billy Bob Joe taking, oh, I got a female dog and a male dog. Let's just see what happens. Right? I, as a dog trainer, see that all the time. And so it's, one of the things that it's hard because you really don't know what you're going to get. Even yes, cause you know, you have a male and a female dog. doesn't mean they should always be bred. And then obviously we have the whole rescue stuff that we have to deal with too.

Lianne Shinton (07:53)

Yeah, and from a health standpoint too, you know, it sucks when you get a family dog and then you don't know the genetics. And yeah, my perfect angel is from a wonderful Malinois breeder, but a working Malinois breeder. And you know, that's the right fit for me. Stephanie O'Brien from Lusen. Yeah. Yeah.

Cameron (08:05)

From which breeder?

yeah, yeah, I know Stephanie. I know Alvar, I know her better, but we're friends on Facebook,

almost all the dog training can be friends on Facebook. So yeah, I actually like her dogs a lot. Like if I was to get one of them, funny, if I go back to mouse, which I know I'll it one day, ⁓ I would get one from ⁓ Jonathan Katz, one of his lines, or when I was so weird.

Lianne Shinton (08:22)

Yes, yes.

Cameron (08:36)

when I went out to Michael's school, because I was only used to like those type of dogs. Jonathan had some pretty intense melon walls and I was just used to them just kind of just always being on, not having an off switch. And I liked how Michael's dogs were like, they were, they had the drive to do everything else, but they were also just like pretty naturally chill. Not as like a puppy, but even as some of the younger ones you would pull out, they were not as antsy and stuff like that.

They are very tall dogs though. ⁓ I'm a big fan of medium to large, not large to massive preets. So like to me it could, going back to Dobermans, I hate the large breed Dobermans you see nowadays. I think a Doberman should be between, as a male no more than 80 pounds. It's just an athletic breed if we're going off the origin.

Lianne Shinton (09:11)

Yeah.

Cameron (09:36)

standards.

Lianne Shinton (09:36)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, it's interesting as a dog trainer, we become very picky about what we're looking for in a dog.

Cameron (09:43)

yeah, very picky. We, but, then it's like, you know,

I tell you all the time was like, you we don't have jobs for dogs anymore. Like 50, 60 years ago, you didn't take your dog to dog training. There, there was a few people that went to like obedience classes, YMCA, and they did specific things because they wanted to do something cool with their dog. That was very far and a few between. ⁓ like dogs just act right because we knew what a dog was back then. We've forgotten.

what a dog is and what they are capable of. And now we want to treat them as if they're babies. Um, some say like Tyler Mudo says that if we don't humanize dogs enough, other trainers say, we humanize dogs too much, but I'm on, I'm kind of in between. Um, I agree with Tyler on that one. I do other trainers on that.

I just tell my clients, I'm like, look, if you want to call yourself a firm mom, for dad, for parent, whatever. Parent is what you should be. Not the, mean, I have three kids trying, can't be a friend and a parent at time.

There's something with dog, there's something with dog.

Lianne Shinton (11:05)

Well said.

Yeah, well said, well said. Now, just to shift a little bit to something that you mentioned earlier, you sound like you've surrounded yourself with the best of the best, and you really appreciate having a strong mentor to help you grow as a job trainer and evolve to be the best you can be. Can you share a little bit about how important that is to you, having a mentor that is incredible, like a Michael Ellis?

Cameron (11:29)

you ⁓

So

it was funny that first video I ever saw of Michael was in 2009. Yeah, 2009, 2010. One of the old Learburg videos. It was just something I always knew I wanted to learn from him. And so I was like, okay, whatever I can and one day I'll get out there to go learn from him. I never got into Ivan until later years and Bart and all the other guys.

The biggest thing I tell dog trainers up and coming that if I was to redo this all over again, I would have started at 20. I would not have started my business at 20 years old. There's so many things you're going to walk into that you have no clue you're going to walk into. People are going to BS about a lot of stuff that's going on with their dogs and you don't know how to filter through that as a 20 year old. I put myself in

Lianne Shinton (12:31)

Yeah.

Cameron (12:34)

pretty uncomfortable situations because I took a owner's word as well. And so having a mentor that like, hey, you should try this and that doesn't look too good. You need to do this instead. ⁓ even now I'm always having different mentors, people that I've admired and watched over the years. Like, Hey, can I work with you? Can you do coaching calls? Like right now I'm working with a guy named Katie Matthews who I've been following for the past four or five years. So it's more of.

I'm always wanting to learn and become a better teacher. Something that I've, something I've been, I think all dog trainers relate to this, we're really good with the dogs. Like, perfect. But that's not the reason the dogs are good with us. If we just have the dogs and the dogs are able to flip a switch and we can make them be better, that's fine. But we're not home, we don't go home with the dogs. We end a session, we go home for the day. We...

Lianne Shinton (13:12)

Mm.

Cameron (13:34)

Send the dog home after a quarter of a train. The biggest issue we struggle with is teaching the clients and making sure the clients follow through. And so that's something that I've tried better. How do I educate? How do I push my clients to become better dog owners? Because sometimes it's, the answers are right in front of them. They just can't see it. And so having a mentor there to help guide and to, hey, you should teach this way by

Clay, my other mentor, he was kind of a struggle with me because I met him when I was like 15, so I've known him for very long time, 15 years, and he never would answer questions. So if you gave him a question, he'd give you like three answers. It was always like an open-ended answer, so you would have to filter through the answers. And I'm very quiet when I'm learning. It takes me a few hours to process the information.

and I'm very hands-on. So I couldn't just watch a video and learn. I have to be like in it. I have to mess up. You have to tell me I messed up and go from there. I have to watch how people mess up and I'm going to keep trying until I get it right. I can't, but I also do the same thing with my book. I'm reading a book. I'll go try it, but if I can't see it, I'm still in my brain. I think it's right. And so like I said, having a mentor there to guide you through that is what I think most.

Lianne Shinton (14:39)

you

Cameron (15:02)

Up and coming dog trainers.

Lianne Shinton (15:08)

Yeah. I mean, that was quite interesting. Everything you just said, because you strongly, like we all should as dog trainers, we have to be a coach for the humans because the dog has to listen to them. They have to be able to do the things that we tell them to do. And you also kind of turn that lens around and pointed at yourself and talked a little bit about how you learn. ⁓ because yeah, everybody learns differently and it's important for us dog trainers to be able to be that.

coach for them, to motivate them and help them learn.

Cameron (15:38)

Yeah.

Lianne Shinton (15:43)

Now for MCK9, so people to find you, they would just go to mck9dogtraining.com. Is that right?

Cameron (15:49)

Yeah, mckinntrading.com.

⁓ I'm on Facebook, ⁓ on Instagram, on TikTok. ⁓ I try to do all the social medias that we can. ⁓ Now I do a lot through Facebook ads, so that can give me a lot of ⁓ business at the moment. That's pretty much how most people find me, or the vets around here that I'm cool with.

Lianne Shinton (16:19)

And then what does that first starting point look like if I have a, you know, puppy and I want to get dog training with you or talk to you? What is that first kind of journey? Part of the journey look like.

Cameron (16:30)

So with

my puppy program, typically do how old the puppy is. If it's under 16 weeks, I'll come to your home and meet the puppy because obviously they have shots. ⁓ And so I'll come meet with you, get a feel of what your goals are. And if you're ready to go, I put you into my puppy guidance program where I'm going to help you for the whole first year of the puppy's life. And so the biggest thing that I see with ⁓

clients when they have a young dog is there's wrong yet. Right? We don't, it's blank canvas. They may be having some house breaking issues. They may be having like the puppies getting into things, but you know, a lot of people will baby proof, but they won't puppy proof their house. And so, and they're just like, they're forgetting things. They're all the bad habits are actually starting right then as the puppy so daggily cute. You want to pick it up all the time.

friends want to come over and play with the puppy. Your kids are all over the puppy. Puppies running and jumping on the couch. It's starting to, as every day gets bigger, starting to climb on your leg. It's barking. Oh, it cried the whole night the first time. And then you're like, Oh, I couldn't bear it. So you brought it in bed with you. And then six months goes by and the dog started to become a problem. And so my goal for puppy program is to help prevent all that. And like, Hey, if you stick out a little longer,

you're gonna start ⁓ creating boundaries and rules and structure in the house that's gonna help so your dog understands what's expected of them. And I'm probably sure every dog trainer says this is we give dogs too much freedom too soon in the house. And so people think of off leash, think outside, but 99 % of the problems that you have are in your house. And we have to fix that first before we can go outside. And so there's that.

And then we'll do a few sessions. I don't agree with vets and most of the dog trainers don't agree with vets when it comes to socialization. Now, just be smart about taking your puppy out to places. Just don't throw them. Don't go to, you know, PetSmart where they have the band filled in there and you walk through a puppy, have an accident, don't do that. But you can take your puppy to Tractor Supply, Home Depot. You can take your puppy to a friend's house that has

Lianne Shinton (18:29)

Good point.

Cameron (18:57)

vaccinated dogs, get your puppy out, seeing the world. There's plenty of ways to put your puppy in a basket with a blanket and walk around getting your dog out because they're obviously are going through a fear period. And by the time you're back, it's like, ⁓ now you can go up. And so I want to help avoid all that. And then as your puppy matures, now because they're really doing obedience because the first few weeks, first two months is really just

Lianne Shinton (19:16)

Mm.

Cameron (19:27)

managing the puppy around the house and creating some structure, creating some minor rules. You can't sit there and expect your puppy to do a 50 minute down stay. This is what I'm laughing, this is people expect of their puppies when they first got them. Because a lot of people, what they'll do is when they get a puppy, if they haven't had one for a long time, or if a dog had just passed away and they got one a few months later, they always go back to the dog before that puppy.

Lianne Shinton (19:32)

Yes.

Cameron (19:56)

or the dog they have when they were kids. Oh, it wasn't like this with this dog. It wasn't like that with that dog. And you always got to think the picture. I love when I've had, now being a father, I can tell people like, look, I got three kids. I got two daughters and a son. They are complete opposites on each other. My oldest is my most sensitive. My middle child is a nutcase and she does not care about feelings. And my son is one, so he's about to be one, so he's still figuring stuff out.

Lianne Shinton (20:01)

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Cameron (20:25)

But that dude has no pain tolerance. Like he literally felt smacked at the tile for it, just kept on going. And so just different things that were just what would we expect from a child. It's the same thing kind of with a dog in the same way as it's a different dog. They all have their own wants, needs, and desires.

Lianne Shinton (20:53)

I met, this is making me think, I literally met someone the other day and she saw the logo on my shirt with the dog and she's like, are you a dog trainer? And I'm like, I provide services for dog trainers, like a software. And I'm like, what kind of dog do you have? And she's like, how did you know? And I'm like, I can tell when someone wants to ask questions about, tell me about their dog. And it was ⁓ like a Chihuahua mix. And she's, I think three months old.

Cameron (21:11)

Now.

Lianne Shinton (21:22)

and she said that she's having housebreaking problems with the puppy. And I asked a few questions and learned that like right now while she's at work, the puppy is home alone with full access to the entire house. And I'm like, wow, scary.

Cameron (21:39)

My sister just

got my niece as a puppy and of course it's a doodle. I have no issues with doodles. They pay our bills. That's what I say when people ask, do you have issues? No, they pay my bills. I've met some pretty cool ones over the years, so I have no qualms with them. But my sister was the same as I'm trying to tell her how to start.

preventing separation anxiety, start creating the house up to a better structure of the puppy. She's doing good. I mentioned having a leash on, she goes, what do mean? I was like, have a leash on a puppy. But why? I was like, because if the puppy does something and grabs something, the puppy's going to learn that it can get away from you. We don't want that. She's like, oh, I never thought of it. I was like, I know, that's why I'm your brother.

You're lucky your brother's a dog trainer. Like I know. So it's just funny when people, they just expect the dog to get it really quickly. Don't get me wrong, some dogs are good. I have another puppy in. She's a Malmo puppy, a five month old Malmo puppy and oh my gosh. She's, her separation anxiety is like through the roof.

Lianne Shinton (22:41)

Hehehehehe ⁓

Cameron (23:09)

They couldn't handle her being in a crate and we're like, ⁓ we do. So they just caved. Now they got lucky in the fact that like, Hey, we let her out. She's not having accidents. Okay, cool. But she's still freaking out being alone. So we have to stop that. Like she has to learn it's okay to be by herself. ⁓ and don't get me wrong with dogs are gonna freak out. They're like a young dog is going to third temper tantrums and be upset about being in the crate. You just have to persevere.

Lianne Shinton (23:15)

Mm.

Cameron (23:38)

and the dog realized, okay, this is just life. And we as humans love to put emotion that's not there.

Lianne Shinton (23:40)

Yeah.

Cameron (23:48)

We love to, oh, we feel like you feel back, the dog doesn't feel bad, the dog just, this is just life, like, okay, I'm in my dream, I'm in my dream. And for a very young dog, they're gonna sleep, even older dogs, they're gonna reserve their energy and sleep 10 to 15 hours a day.

And so having them be in a crate now, granted, if you get a young dog and you have to go to work, yeah, you're to have to pay the extra money to have a pet sitter come in and let the dog offer an hour while you're in between. Or if you ever come home for lunch, like that's, that's doable. But just it's what you do when you get your puppy out of the crate for that time. That's what matters more than a puppy sitting in the crate for eight hours while you're at work. Now, yeah, the puppy's eight.

Lianne Shinton (24:08)

Yep.

Cameron (24:34)

nine, 10 weeks old, yes, when you're working on house breaking and crate training, you're gonna have to someone come in and let the dog out. That's just part of the process of having a puppy.

Lianne Shinton (24:48)

Yeah, and having a plan even before you get the puppy. With this individual too, she shared with me that, and this reminded me of what you just said, like sometimes our expectations, we just expected to just go this way. And she had said that she put down those peepee pads and just left her home alone with the peepee pads and expected the puppy to just housebreak herself.

Cameron (24:57)

Okay.

Yeah.

Put put down the peepee pads Go on it House but but the

pee pads don't address peeing in the house. They actually teach the dogs to pee in the house. Now don't get me wrong You live in the you know a high-rise in the city. Okay, cool. We can teach your dog to go in the bathtub. That's fine. But Yeah, no

Lianne Shinton (25:22)

They encourage it.

Cameron (25:38)

I'm not a fan of pee pads. never be a fan of pee pads unless living in, you're in that type of environment, apartment style. That is totally fine. I actually try to convince clients to do like the turf pads on the deck versus peeing in the bathtub. That's my second one. Cause then we can just bleach and clean it out and do all that. But yeah, when I was crazy, when I lived in Chicago and I did my apprenticeship there, you would get dogs out from like,

Lianne Shinton (25:40)

Yeah.

Agree, yeah.

Cameron (26:07)

the countryside. We had no grass. There was a little bit of grass where we would do protection work on club days. And that's all the grass that we had. But the relative time was fixed in a parking lot. So we would just leave dogs until they froze. They would just go because they were not used to going on concrete. That would take a very long time to teach. ⁓ And so that's just part of it. And you have to take things with older dogs. you move and do stuff like that, now granted, they can kind of...

contextualize things, but sometimes you do have to reteach some things. Especially if you get an older dog that's never been in the house.

Lianne Shinton (26:46)

Yeah. Now, ⁓ could you share a transformation story of someone that you've helped the family with a dog, for example, where it was a tougher one and you saw an amazing transformation?

Cameron (27:02)

Yeah.

And so there are a few recently. One was a client breakthrough. The dog was a tough dog. ⁓ She just got confident. The dog obviously wasn't gonna, wasn't this huge. It was actually an aggressive case. ⁓ I typically, how I manage stuff, we have 12 acres out here.

My kids help me a lot so I'm very particular if I take an aggression case on because I just don't like to have those types of dogs. But typically I take them on and with this case he was looking for a while, probably about eight weeks and he was fear aggressive. First day I met him he's trying to bite me but he's also peeing at the same time.

He's like, I don't really want to be here, man, but I don't know how to get you away from me. And so I gained his trust. I got him a lot more comfortable with me. Training him was the easiest part. Now I was teaching his owner, you have to be able to tell him no and control him under that situation and have a better relationship with him. feel like he needs to blow up at people, blow up at other dogs. And so.

That was a really cool thing to see her get confident and not get nervous when she held that leash. These are the things that we handle like reactivity issues with dogs or aggression. A lot of it comes by the handler, like the handler's teaching the dog accidentally to do these things, right? So when a dog is approaching and you're walking your dog, the first time your dog goes up on a dog, okay, that's, it threw you off. It's cool.

Lianne Shinton (28:32)

you

Cameron (28:55)

keep going, dog doesn't do it, then it does it again. And by case, case three, to create a pattern. So by the third time you're like, okay, now you're on guard looking for a dog coming by and you start to tighten up a leash every time you see a dog. But what that's doing is queuing the dog like, oh, okay, I'll take care of this. And they start reacting. And so there's that. The

Lianne Shinton (29:13)

you

Cameron (29:23)

The cool thing about my job is my clients come and they see me a lot. So their progress is always going. tell people like there's three parts of like obedience training when it comes to dogs. We teach, we prove, we maintain. We have to teach it or we will expect the dog. We have to prove it, mean with the dog, do it no matter what's going on. And then we have to maintain it. And that's kind of what I want all my clients to do because it's you're always striving to have a better relationship with your dog.

Lianne Shinton (29:56)

Yeah. And when you're saying you maintain it, it's making me think too, like you mentioned, you do take some more difficult dogs on and I'm thinking, Hey, this might not be fixable, but we're going to manage it. No one will ever realize this dog ever had any issues, but it's kind of like, I guess a drug addict as an example is like, you have to maintain a certain lifestyle, a certain, you know, maintain that training so they don't fall back into those old, you mentioned pattern.

Cameron (30:23)

Yeah, like

yesterday I went out to an eval and the dog had bit their son. He's an older, an older kid and I say older, he's against once. And the dog had rescue. was, he had went in for a hug or he was being rough with his dad, being goofy and the dog went out. And it's a pit bull mix.

Believe and she definitely has been in her and so They you know were super nervous I mean like they were shaking before I walked inside the house because they were just gonna attack and of course I put my suit on I'm gonna see That always just I mean they have a suck me on her shouldn't bite me I didn't see what they saw and so there they obviously calm back down, but I said look

Like, we're all gonna take her on or we're gonna do the training. But when it comes to y'all, just like I said before, a training a dog like that for us is very easy. We know how to manage our anxiety, our anxiousness, just the nerves when it comes to handling a type of dog. Because if we can control ourselves, it's gonna help the dog. Okay, I don't need to be nervous in this situation. I don't need to be freaking out. But the dog may not know what you're thinking, but can't tell how you're

Lianne Shinton (31:25)

stuff.

Cameron (31:54)

It can feel that you're anxious. It can feel that you're upset like going back to housebreaking Old-school way of rubbing a dog's nose in it when they peed the dog has no clue what you're doing. The dog thinks you're a jerk Right, but that was the old-school way the dog knows you're mad about something you come in your dog had destroyed something and you're upset I know something's wrong and if he will all the dog knows they did wrong. don't know the dog just knows you're upset

Lianne Shinton (31:58)

Yep.

Yeah.

Cameron (32:22)

So there's gonna stay away from you. Your dog can tell that you're uneasy if you have an anxious, a fearful, aggressive reactive, which we all know reactive gets blown up proportion these days, but we're just gonna use it for lameness terms for most people to understand that. The dog is going off of you. So if you are starting to act in a certain way, the dog's thinking this setting, this picture, this

Lianne Shinton (32:24)

Hmm.

Cameron (32:51)

Person is what's upsetting you I should be worried too. I should be on guard too and so that's a big thing in star trains like hey just Learn how to control yourself. Learn how to control your emotions around this Another cool one. This is a puppy one This guy really loves working with stuff. He loves. He'll cop the class. He's an eight month old blue healer, which I love. I love getting with a healer.

And this guy takes the training to a whole other level. We did our puppy program, I did the board training, got her all put under the foundations working. And he's like, come to class, I taught her this thing, I taught her this thing. And then I go back and it was just funny. He's doing really well, but it's just like little things he needs to on. Hey, you're talking too much to her. He's like, what do you mean? She's kind of like blowing you off in a few things. So you need to like bring it back a little bit.

Lianne Shinton (33:46)

Hmm.

Cameron (33:51)

just give her a cue. She doesn't reinforce it. he goes, okay, let me explain something. And so, like he was trying to teach her like a focused cue, which he was saying hi to. But we were in middle of group class and he was saying it so much that she just was like, being an eight month old cue, was focused on the setting, not him. And I was like, she met this time, I wouldn't do it. And he's like, all right. And so, it's just cool. I'll be like, cause I do let some of the dogs once we're done.

Lianne Shinton (34:10)

Yeah.

Cameron (34:20)

and they have to ask beforehand and once everybody's out I'll let some of the dogs that are cool with it, they'll want to run and just, I fenced off all six acres and so they'll run and just kind of run for a few minutes and so he was, were talking about it and there was just something to, we always love when the dog trainer, or as a dog trainer getting somebody in that's kind of like really into training and they love working with their dog, that's always the best part.

Lianne Shinton (34:53)

Yeah. There was something you said earlier too, ⁓ more with the dog that had bitten ⁓ in the family that had bitten the child or, you know, young man. And I think I just wanted to add to that that stuff happens and it's super scary and it sucks. The best thing you can do is get somebody in your corner that can help you. Just like if I have public speaking fear.

Cameron (35:04)

Thank

Mm-hmm.

Lianne Shinton (35:23)

I'm going to get coached on that. go to Toastmasters, but I will take action and surround myself with someone or some people that can help me through that. And I think that is critical. If you have a bite, you know, history with your dog, it's biting you. You need to get with Cameron because you need someone in your corner that can help you through that.

Cameron (35:40)

Yeah, I mean.

Yeah, and

I've turned dogs away because I'm just like, a dog training is expensive and people don't. It's expensive and the investment of it as I'm going to require a lot of time from you. is yes, there's a cost to it. Your dog is a big investment. And so but if you take the time, a little puppy, you take the time you hear most are from this.

most dogs are gonna live to 15 years. You take whatever the cost of dog training is and divide it up to how long your dog's gonna live. It comes out to pennies on the dog. But when you're dealing with an aggression case or a very strong reaction case, having someone there to guide you in the right direction.

Lianne Shinton (38:08)

Welcome back.

Cameron (38:09)

and go, are you gonna have?

Lianne Shinton (38:13)

Do remember where you were at where you were kind of at about the dark training be expensive.

Cameron (38:16)

I was going on a tangent.

the, I mean we should actually really say it's an investment, the having someone in your corner to help you with your dog when you're going, that helps. And not even that, what I've also seen is like when people struggle with dogs and with their dog and they come to one of my like group classes, pack walks, you legacy support.

After they're dealt the program and they see the other dogs are going through the same thing it helps them I'm not the only person going through this with my dog. It's not just me right, but a lot of issues we still deal with on a daily basis is because a Lot of it is the owners fault in a way Don't get me wrong. Of course, if you've got a dog from a shelter and they have these issues

Lianne Shinton (38:53)

Yeah.

Good point. Yeah.

Cameron (39:15)

By the time the dog gets to us, a simple correction could have stopped a lot of those issues from getting really worse. And that's something the dog does need as we, know, as most people aren't aware of how dog trends have this inner battle between them never saying no or not using punishment and using punishment. But I will always be able to tell a dog no and letting the dog know.

in their language, hey, this is not the right thing for you. It's how we learn, it's how dogs learn, it's how I teach my children. ⁓ And so that's something that is a good thing to have for people when they are trying to find a dog trainer.

Lianne Shinton (40:06)

Yeah, agreed. And it's making me think too of something you brought up at the beginning when you mentioned the word socialization. And, you know, like sometimes you got to tell the kids, no, I was thinking you could share on if someone comes up to you and they want to pet your Corso and you're training them, you know, you don't want just people coming up and hugging your dog. Give an example of how you would tell a person in public,

No, stop. Sorry, he's in training. And maybe speak on that a little bit as tips.

Cameron (40:40)

Yeah, I always

tell people when I'm out with dogs, puppy, I keep the cutest puppy in the world, depending on where you're going with the dog, I will tell them, we're in training now. So I might get mad about this, but I typically would just say, hey, let's go to be a service dog. And everyone's like, oh, okay, let's keep on walking. That's my go-to line. Everyone does that. I know other trainers that are like, oh, I'm on the phone. I go hide their headphones in.

just kind of like gear off, right? Just to avoid the situation. But you know.

Lianne Shinton (41:09)

Yeah.

Cameron (41:14)

People think that just because the dog is in public, it has to come up to them and say hi. That's just not the case, right? Like it's my dog, it's not your dog. It's my property, it's not your property. I don't go up and say hi to your husband and touch your husband or touch your wife or come up and touch your kids. It's gonna be very weird. It's gonna be very weird, right? But for some reason, it's accessible to do with the dogs. And now don't get me wrong, there are...

Lianne Shinton (41:30)

Kids, yep.

Cameron (41:40)

not the brightest people out there when they just think their dog should be able to go everywhere and they can't even control their dogs. And so that's another issue I have to take.

Lianne Shinton (41:50)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I thought that could be a good takeaway too for folks listening. Like if you're out walking your dog, it's your dog and everybody has to pet it. And I think those are some good tips like, sorry, I'm on the phone or he's training to be a service dog. You can't touch him.

Cameron (41:58)

Mm-hmm.

Yep. mean, and then it's, it's,

yep. mean, most people are gonna ask questions, he's just trying to be sort of like, let me just keep going. Or say, hey, we're just trying to avoid these things. ⁓ I.

typically don't make eye contact with people. Like I'm just like just going and I walk pretty fast like by that time and don't get me wrong. If I know the dog's safe, the dog's cool. I may allow it for the correct person. If the dog's behaving, I may allow it. If I have a fear of progress, kind of overcoming sometimes, I may allow it. So it just depends on the dog when I'm working on it. But obviously if it's an aggression or reactivity case, I'm not gonna let anything happen in that situation. And so it's just

Lianne Shinton (42:19)

You

Yeah.

Cameron (42:45)

knowing your dog and knowing what you want out of the dog, having the goals you're going to want. But every time a stranger come up to your dog, you're also letting your dog know that you're not the most important thing in the environment. So, that's not a good thing. We should work on that.

Lianne Shinton (43:07)

Yeah. And I think, like you said, having the expectation. So I'm not avoiding letting my dog interact. I'm not trying to avoid any of that. I'm actually come right by me, walk right by me. My dog will completely ignore you. That's my expectation. That's what I'm going for. Yes.

Cameron (43:20)

Because that's what we want because a of people think that

dogs should have to say hi to everybody. Not every dog, either Labrador or Gordron Trier wants to say hi to everybody. They just, they don't care. They're not gonna be the most outgoing dog. And the expectation you have for your dog is like, how do you expect your dog to act when someone comes in the door?

Do you want your dog to be barking, spinning, scratching, jumping up, going crazy when someone knocks on that door or when grandma comes in? Or do want your dog just to be calmly laying at the floor without you having to cue it? What do you want? Like, what do you want? Right? And so, uh, it was always funny. I use my parents example, uh, cause they kept from the

the older Dobermans I had trained until he passed away. And my dad thought it was the funniest thing in the world to let him go chase squirrels. He thought it was fine. They had an invisible fence so he would run to the border and get them off the property. He thought it was fine. But my God, he hated when it was like 7 a.m. or 6 a.m. or 10 p.m. and he would just start spinning, a Bacardi. He would start spinning and spinning and spinning and start barking. And...

Lianne Shinton (44:24)

You ⁓

Cameron (44:43)

They would say they would get on to it. would would. Yeah, let him just stop it. He just. Ignore them. All I had to do was open my door and he would run to his bed and lay down. Is it he just run his he was he he was he was was let off big like he was upset or like a sigh stop. That was it right and. Then it was at feeding time he would go and wait by now at 5 AM.

and just like poke him with his nose to get up. kid that wants to get to feed me. Now if my parents were gone and my door was open, he'd open the door and come in my room. He would try to, and as they know he would just go live like that. He would not mess with me. It's a relationship thing too with our dogs. The dog understands, say who do I have to respect here? Who's gonna be a pushover? Your dog definitely knows that about you.

Lianne Shinton (45:34)

Hmm.

Yes, yes, that's funny. ⁓ Yeah, my dog knows that I can be a bit of a pushover in some scenarios, but I absolutely love when I walk her every day on the sidewalk, we pass people and you know, she just walks by proud carries her toy and their compliments and I'm just like, I love her. She's so perfect. It's just seems so simple. But you know, it's it's such a great expectation to have your dog just ignore every

Cameron (45:47)

Hahaha.

Yeah.

Lianne Shinton (46:09)

She can be super friendly, like, you she'll jump and scratch if I let her so yeah. But I love that feeling having just a great dog that I can take anywhere around any distraction and she just completely, it is such a good feeling. Yeah. Awesome. Is there anything else you'd like to share today?

Cameron (46:10)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

⁓ huh.

Yeah.

Do you have any other questions for me?

Lianne Shinton (46:34)

⁓ Well, we did talk a little bit about reactivity and I know that is kind of a common thing. ⁓ Maybe if you wouldn't mind sharing a little bit because I think that's kind of a common thing that people like you mentioned, it literally happens once and you're like, I didn't expect that. two, three more times. Boom, you've got a freaking problem. So maybe just a little tidbit on a share on reactivity might be helpful for folks.

Cameron (47:04)

So I love it too, you can come down to what we back up and.

When someone's having issues with that, they may go, I'm only having issues with the dog outside all-in-issue. Okay. Yeah, he's pulling, he's barking at squirrels, and the rest of it doesn't be for people, it's gonna dogs, it be just at the end fire, maybe barking at cars, whatever. So then I ask, okay, how's he in the house? They're like, he's fine in house. He's fine in the house. What's going on there?

Well, like, you sometimes he'll go and jump on the counter sometimes we go and catch we're not supposed to Sometimes he starts out the door when you know, it's left open for too long Okay, so we still some issues so We want to go back and fix The things that the dog is having issues with in a controlled environment

before I can bring them out.

and put them into an uncontrolled environment. I can't control the moment I walk off my driveway. I cannot control what's gonna happen when a squirrel runs by, I can't control the timing of that. I can somewhat, sometimes control a dog, depending if we be at a park, we come to my place, I have another client come, or if I bring a dog, I can somewhat control the variables.

but I still need to help the dog get past this. And so if I can create a better structure for the client in the house and start teaching some fundamentals, getting the dog to engage with them a little bit more, and get out to just simple cues, nothing crazy.

and then get the dog to pass and then depending on the severity of the aggression is going to tell me how are we going to adjust this or the aggression with the reactivity how are we going to change this because i've taken dogs and the owner like he will react no matter what he sees a dog and i'll get the dog i'll be pulling on the leash that's also a very big important thing and then we'll pass it out no problem

and I haven't even had to give them a correction or anything or stop this behavior. What happens is most people want to correct the dog when the dog gets to red. Like when the dog's already in that state of mind, the goal is to correct beforehand.

Lianne Shinton (49:40)

Yeah.

Cameron (49:46)

That hard stare the dog goes like this, his dog and their eyes go wide, they start to dip their head back down. Their hair starts to stand up a little bit. Their ear goes to where the dog is, so the person or thing they want to react to. Catching that and catching that thought, like, huh, that's not what we're doing right now. You're like, now I to do that? Oh, okay, cool. Let's keep going.

It can be super simple as that and keep going. Sometimes you have to redirect them to prevent it from happening. ⁓ I am at some stages of where I'm not with the client. I hey, you may have to just be cautious because you're not ready to do that yet with the dog. So if we're going to be here and go for a walk with your dog and to walk, or you want to go walk with your dog.

Lianne Shinton (50:10)

Yeah.

Cameron (50:33)

When you come to a bend that you cannot see around, you need to go wide. So you're not coming up on a dog.

you need to go somewhere where it's just open and you can walk the dog versus walking in the neighborhood right now. Like just not kind of putting a bandaid on so we can fully address it. I have to see what's going on with the dogs. That's also the issue part of taking on, doing the border train for example. If I have a 120 pound dog, but the client's 90 pounds,

I have to be sure that they can get the same, the dog to know when they need to, the dog understands it clearer than, I said, as I just did it, right? And so having different tools and techniques and protocols are gonna help with my, the, like when I'm training a lot, I'll use a regular collar or a slip leash. I love slip leashes now.

I'm more used to those than I do use e-collars, right? ⁓ But being able to teach a client to give a dog a tap, okay, get them to focus back, helps so much. ⁓ And even so, not using the prom color, I got that tactile response, okay, no, you don't need to do that, helps so much. Having a...

Lianne Shinton (51:58)

Yeah, especially a hundred...

Cameron (52:01)

Yeah, you're having a large dog, mean even

Lianne Shinton (52:02)

a hundred... yeah.

Cameron (52:03)

you have a 67 pound dog, it's still, when they're going full force and the client is still an older person or the dog still needs to know, okay, that is not acceptable. No matter who has the leash.

it can sometimes be a little tricky on the program.

Lianne Shinton (52:19)

Yeah, I like what you said.

I like what you said too about like really analyzing the other things that might be going on that maybe the client, the dog owner doesn't even realize these things could be fixed. Like, you know, he's been getting in the trash or I let him in the backyard and he won't come in and he's getting zoomies and I can't get him back. And like, you can fix that too. That'd be great. Plus it's also helping because it's connected to the behavior.

Cameron (52:34)

huh.

Mm-hmm.

Lianne Shinton (52:48)

the reactivity that you're seeing.

Cameron (52:48)

Well yeah, well

a dog is trying to answer two questions all day. Those two questions are trying to answer for themselves all day. Do know what they are, Liam?

Lianne Shinton (53:01)

I'm gonna say no so that you'll.

Cameron (53:01)

You probably never thought of it like this.

So they are trying to get what they want and how do they avoid discomfort? That is all they're trying to answer all day. Those two things. It's super simple. When I was taught that I was like, okay, that makes sense. So like.

Lianne Shinton (53:12)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, awesome, yeah.

Say

that again so the people in the back here at Flirty, have to listen to this too, because she already knows this and that.

Cameron (53:22)

So.

So like all they're trying to answer is how do I get well, how do I get what I want? Now that is training you, training us, dogs are really good at training people, their owners to get what they want. And how do I avoid discomfort? So your dog jumping on you to get affection is getting something they want.

your dog coming over to you and like nuzzling you is basically what your dog whining at you in the crate. They don't want to be in the crate. That's what we just come through. So like they're trying these things to get what they don't want and what they do want. And so when you let them go to the door and scratch it, you just said, Hey, this is okay. So let me go outside.

when your dog jumps on you, when it wants affection, you just say, it's okay. This is allowed. So when we go outside, there's like, hey, there's no rules in the house. There's no rules inside.

So there's no roots outside, there's no roots inside. So the dog is trying to, why can't I do this? Why can't I do that?

Lianne Shinton (54:34)

Makes total sense.

Well said, I'm sure people are thinking right now. know I am. Flirty's kind of spoiled. All right, so just some fun questions, kind of lightning round. If you were a breed of dog, what breed do think you would be?

Cameron (54:57)

hardcore Doberman or that. I don't know. I do love those Germans, but I haven't I don't know when I'm ever going to get one again. But my wife, but I was just like, yeah, a Doberman would be cool. Roddy, any of those type of breeds.

Lianne Shinton (55:00)

You love those Dobermans, huh?

Yeah, right. I always like like a female Dober female rot. That would be a dream. But the doves and cancer sucks. So like

Cameron (55:29)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, I

actually got a client one from a really respected breeder who I would probably get one from down the line. just, that was my biggest thing with them is I was watching the breed for such a long time and I was following some of the dogs that I really liked their careers. They were just like dying at four, dying at five. I was like, what the heck.

So was like, okay, I just like they're trying to do like great things. They were not making me the tent and I love a big great thing and it's funny ⁓ as we got some property we're debating on if we're gonna get like a farm dog and by God

Lianne Shinton (56:01)

Yeah.

Cameron (56:12)

I will never own, I will say I never train for a client a livestock guardian dog ever again. I just had a great Pyrenees come through, which is probably a good story. The client, she was terrified of this dog. I'm terrified of him. He a four year old great Pyrenees. And the dog just needed to be told no.

But all he wanted to do was just sleep outside with the goats and she had property, she gave him a job, it was totally fine. But I'm like, he's not a lion. He's going to bark at the Amazon people when come. He's going to bark at people he doesn't see on regular basis. He needs to knock it off when you tell him to. There's a definite respect thing. Because I mean, I had it done for six weeks. He did go after her for like...

Lianne Shinton (56:45)

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Cameron (57:08)

grooming because he would be painful because she had problems with grooming. And so it got really mad at one time. And so he did like bite her because he was in pain. I took the, because after a few weeks of being here with me, it took him a long time to like, it took him like a week and a half to like, okay, cool, cool. He would do this subtle like low. ⁓

see you. That's it. Just very low. It was not like a lab that goes, it's just very like, hey, I'm cool. And so you come up and I would just sit there and I would just brush him. Brush him. Grab poke, pull. Not a growl. He would just lay down and just look at me. I had the same thing with the giant schnauzer a year ago. They like couldn't touch him. He would get maly and I would hold his face and just pull on his beard. I'm like, I'm going to be rough as if.

Lianne Shinton (57:39)

Yeah.

Cameron (58:02)

something going wrong, what are you going to do? And so just going back and showing clients like, no, you can't do that. Sorry, my whole tangent, but yeah, no, definitely Doberman. I think, yeah, it's definitely a dog. A Doberman or a Ra, either would be cool to be if I was, don't believe in reincarnation, but if I was ever to be reincarnated, that would be it.

Lianne Shinton (58:26)

All right, favorite type of music.

Cameron (58:33)

I listen to country, listen to Christian music a lot. Yeah, don't really listen to like, financial state bands or like rock and roll. who you talking about? They're like, what?

Lianne Shinton (58:35)

Okay, I thought you'd say that.

Cameron (58:47)

Sorry, I was raised in the Baptist Church, so I don't really like listen. But my brother had like a mic. My brother was like really into rap, so he had like Mike Jones all over his wall, and all that stuff. like I remember those, type of music. But yeah, I'm in the country, the Christian stuff I listen to now. Yeah, about 45. We're about an hour from you today. About north west.

Lianne Shinton (58:48)

you

I figured you'd say country. Because you're near Houston, Texas.

okay.

Okay, Montgomery.

Cameron (59:17)

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Lianne Shinton (59:20)

And the last lightning

round question, favorite food.

Cameron (59:26)

Text Max.

Lianne Shinton (59:28)

Okay.

Cameron (59:30)

Like you can't we went to we went to New York for the holiday Christmas and We got back and I'm like, where are we gonna go? like, I need food. Okay, what do you mean? was like I need need I gringos and poppies which is too big Text my exchange she's like we come for a week and I was like, I know we know we go three times a week like what you expected me like we we were gone for a whole like

It feels like ages not being there. ⁓ Yeah, I know. Tex max. I love cooking a good steak. ⁓ I'm really into like two dishes that I make ⁓ in a steak and that's chili. And I'm actually really good at making chicken. My wife gets nervous when she's ⁓ Meaning she kind of over does cook her chicken a little bit. I don't get scared. I don't get scared. So it's like really like she's like

I was like, just don't get scared. Like I just flip it and know when it's done, I know the temperature and take it off. It's not that long. I just don't want to get sick. Like we're not gonna get sick. It's fine.

Lianne Shinton (1:00:38)

Yeah, I've dealt with enough raw dog food chicken that I've been lucky enough not to catch that with salmonella by now. yeah, you you definitely fit into that kind of Texan kind of box. So I you answered exactly the things I thought you would. That's fun. Awesome, Cameron. Well, ⁓ thank you so much for joining me today and hopefully someone listening.

Cameron (1:00:45)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.

Lianne Shinton (1:01:07)

locally will reach out if they're having any issues with their dog or they're thinking of getting a puppy or have a puppy. But thank you so much for joining me.

Cameron (1:01:15)

Yeah, no problem. I loved it.

Lianne Shinton (1:01:18)

Awesome. And thank you everyone for listening. Again, Cameron Davis from MCK9 Training and website mck9training.com, right? Got it.

Cameron (1:01:30)

And it's MCK9

Training Facebook, Instagram, TikTok.

Lianne Shinton (1:01:37)

Perfect. All right, well thank you. Again, I'm Leigh Ann Shinton from Automation Talks and I appreciate everybody listening. If you wanna hear more conversations like this, please hit subscribe.