Lianne Shinton (00:01)

Hey everybody and welcome. So I'm Lianne Shinton from Automation Dogs. Welcome to my podcast where I try to create content to help other dog trainers. Sometimes it's new dog trainers and we're just kind of helping each other. And then sometimes it's super experts that, ⁓ you know, we've all kind of heard of and we want to hear from so that they've already kind of been through it and maybe can share with us.

on how to avoid some of the pain as we are building our businesses and training dogs and dealing with clients and all that great stuff. So today I have the pleasure of interviewing Larry Crone. Welcome, Larry.

Larry (00:43)

Hey, Lianne, thanks for having me.

Lianne Shinton (00:47)

Hey, thank you for joining me. So I was asking before we started, because I want to make sure that of course introduce everybody correctly. And we were talking about your business, Packmasters, and just wanted to make sure everybody knew, Packmasters, it's P-A-K, is that right?

Larry (01:00)

Mm-hmm.

Right, right, right. Yeah. Yeah. But like you said, I like, think people refer to my name more than the company because I don't use it that often, but that's how it started long time ago. And I just keep it there, I guess, for legal purposes and paperwork and everything.

Lianne Shinton (01:26)

Yeah, yeah, it's interesting because you've made such an amazing name for yourself. And yeah, you have this business name that people may not associate with you.

Larry (01:37)

Right, right. Yeah, it's crazy.

Lianne Shinton (01:41)

Yeah. So interesting, you know, the journey that you have been on and I have some really fun questions I hope for you today because you do a lot of podcasts and a lot of unique things and I want to keep this entertaining and maybe a little bit different so that you're going to have some fun today too. So, and then I'd ask you

Larry (01:49)

Awesome. Yeah, cool.

We love it.

Awesome. I look forward to that.

Lianne Shinton (02:08)

I'd asked you just before we started if you remembered meeting me, because I came out to Rolex in Kentucky and that you came out and we got to meet.

Larry (02:15)

Yes, yeah.

Yeah, that was literally like 19, 20 years ago. Crazy.

Lianne Shinton (02:20)

I think that was.

Yes. And, you know, sometimes things like I don't remember everything. I don't have the best memory, but I think when I think about big events in my life, I remember them like 9-11. I, you know, I know exactly where I was and every moment, whether it's good or bad, like it's such an emotional thing. And I think why I remembered Rolex so well was because

There was a young girl who was competing in the cross country and we knew her and you know the basket jump in the cross country.

And I guess like it's kind of a really tricky jump because the horse has to worry about what's above them. And, ⁓ man, you know, ass over tea kettle, helicopters had to come in and it was just terrifying.

Larry (03:11)

you

wow, I don't remember that.

Holy smokes, I don't even remember that. That's how bad my memory is. Wow, that's awful.

Lianne Shinton (03:21)

Yeah.

Yeah. And I think too, like Rolex, the horse event at the park there, they kept announcing the time, like it's 9 a.m. Rolex time. And then they announced the helicopters are coming in and I'm like, my gosh, what is happening? And it was this young girl that we knew and it was just so significant. And her mom would run along and try to keep up so she could like be a part of this and be there for her daughter.

Larry (03:41)

you

for awhile.

Lianne Shinton (03:56)

I

can't even run like a little bit, but yeah, it was very emotional. I'm thinking that's why I remember it so well.

Larry (04:04)

Wow, yeah, I bet.

Yeah, that's scary stuff. You know, I did a seminar in England in September and one of the people that were hosting me, he's a jockey. And I went to watch one of his events. was a race, but they do all the jumping in the races and stuff. my gosh. Every time they went over and all the horses are going at the same time over these jumps. I just cringed. It was so stressed out just watching it. I don't know how they do it.

Lianne Shinton (04:13)

Wow.

Larry (04:33)

scary.

Lianne Shinton (04:36)

Yeah. Do you have horses or have you ever worked with horses?

Larry (04:38)

No, no,

no, I love horses, but I don't have any.

Lianne Shinton (04:45)

Yeah. I mean, I'm not a horse person. okay, I'm going to jump into a fun, like opener question. I'm excited to hear your answer. So this is kind of a bit silly. If Jurassic Park were real, would you go?

Larry (05:03)

Yes, absolutely. Yeah, I love wildlife. I love the outdoors. Absolutely. I probably need a few drinks in me first, but I'd go.

Lianne Shinton (05:16)

That's really smart. That's really smart. Yeah. ⁓ cause I, I thought that was such an interesting question because I think it kind of tells us like, if you're someone who, ⁓ we'll kind of wait on the sidelines and watch versus just jump in and do it. And I'm not surprised.

Larry (05:18)

Yeah. ⁓

Yeah, that's an awesome question. I like that.

Yeah, it's cool.

Lianne Shinton (05:43)

Yeah, I'm not surprised of your answer. ⁓ You're very bro. So of course you're going to say yes. ⁓ But when I first met you, you, you're, you're always looking for this new way and you're trying to surround yourself with experts and you're, you're, seem to be like the first doing this and really putting yourself out there. So your answer doesn't surprise me at all.

Larry (06:10)

⁓ cool.

Lianne Shinton (06:15)

So my next question, ⁓ let me see here. What's something you enjoy that most people would find boring?

Larry (06:29)

Oof.

That's a really tough question, I think. Well, a lot of people know this about me. I'm a big hunter, I'm a big deer hunter. And I spent a lot of time sitting in a tree in really bad weather from dark till dark, 10, 12 hours at a time without moving and doing anything. A lot of people know I'm into that. I'm not a patient person or someone that can sit around doing nothing. I'm always on the go.

Lianne Shinton (06:44)

Hmm.

Larry (07:02)

But I use that time of year in the fall. It's kind of my therapy. it's the, there's two times that I could sit there and do nothing. That's when I'm sitting in a tree in the fall, just enjoying nature. ⁓ and I, and I enjoy my road trips with a dog where I just turn everything off. And for sometimes hours at a time, there's no music, there's no podcasts, there's no nothing because I don't get a lot of downtime like that, you know? So I really enjoy that. You know, I just drove up to New Jersey. was my mother's 75th birthday.

And I just went home with my kids to surprise her. Most people are going to fly. It's a 14, 15 hour drive and we're only going for one day. I drove it. I drove it there. I drove it back because I actually enjoy the road trips and I wound up having a blast with my kids in the car. Cause usually I'm by myself, you know, so there's not very many times where I get a lot of downtime to do that thing. think most people wouldn't be able to sit still in the tree and you know,

20 degree weather freezing to death, that's my thing for sure.

Lianne Shinton (08:06)

I find that my mind races so much, I almost need something to concentrate on. What you just said made me think of something that I learned more recently, maybe 10 years ago I learned about this. Some people have like a narration in their head, like I can hear my own voice when I'm thinking about things. And there's people that have no like,

Larry (08:13)

Hmm.

Yes.

Mm-hmm.

Lianne Shinton (08:36)

running their dialogue in their head and I'm like, ⁓ my gosh, I wish I had that.

Larry (08:41)

I'm with you, I have a constant dialogue and sometimes if I'm with my wife or kids, apparently I say it out loud and I don't even know it. I do it a lot because yeah, things are always running like that. But that's why I have a hard time sleeping at night too because that's when it's at its worst. When I lay down to go to bed at night, like the mind is always racing and you're thinking about this and thinking. And sometimes you're about things, at least for me, that I don't even know why I'm thinking about them. It's just there, you know what I mean?

Lianne Shinton (09:12)

Yeah.

It's interesting because I always thought it was more like women that have that worrying state of mind and we're always thinking like that. So it's nice to hear that you have that difficulty too.

Larry (09:27)

No, absolutely.

Lianne Shinton (09:31)

So my next question, what's something people assume about you that isn't true?

Larry (09:40)

⁓ man.

I think a lot of times, and this is one of the things, I have conversations with people all the time about this. I'm pretty open about what I feel and think about things. I don't keep too much to myself. But one thing that kind of irritates me sometimes, if people think they know me politically and every which way inside and out, because if I think one way about something,

They just assume you think the same way about everything. And this is a conversation. I'll give you an example. A couple of months ago, someone had done a podcast and they had come to a seminar that I do with J Jack and Joel Silverman. And the podcast was about me. And so I saw, was like, well, the heck, this is never good, right? And it was good. They said really nice things.

But it bothered me so much because they felt that they had to do a podcast to say good things about me because they had a very negative idea of who I was. Like they were so surprised to see that I was actually a nice guy and didn't think about things the way they saw I was completely judged 100%. And that gets old sometimes, you know, and listen, I get it. I do it to myself and many times because I am.

very out there and loud and I don't hold back on certain subjects. But I think that's because so many people that run or own a business, they're scared to talk about how they truly think about things or which side they fall on about this subject or that subject. I really don't care. I'm never going to change who I am and hide things for business purposes. It's not the smartest thing, but I'm not the best businessman.

And I don't care too much about business. I've done okay in the dog world, ⁓ regardless of my flaws. And there's many of them, you know, but that, that is a thing. And, and, and, like I said, the podcast was, was very complimentary and I was happy about that. And I listened to it and I, and I talked to him about it, but they wanted to do a podcast and have me on to talk about all kinds of social, you know, subjects or political subjects.

I don't like mixing dogs in that. My family gets on with sometimes they want me to have two Facebook pages, the business page and the personal page. Smart people do that. I'm not that smart. I have one page, you see my life. You see everything. What you see is what you get. And I do get people at seminars that come up to me quite often and they say, man, I like you so much more in person. Look, thanks, I think. I don't know how to respond to that sometimes.

But that is something that like if they see me outspoken and support maybe a subject that they're, I get it all the time. You know, I had a two ⁓ gay couple friends of mine were getting married and I had nice things to say about them. And man, I couldn't believe the messages. Like I can't believe like you're okay with that. And some of them were happy I was and some of them weren't happy I was. I was like, that's none of your, why wouldn't I be? You know, why or more importantly, why would you think

Lianne Shinton (12:36)

Yes.

Larry (13:05)

that you know how I think about these different subjects, you know? But I get it. My wife gets upset sometimes because she's like, why do you allow people to think like you're some dumb meathead? You know, when you're not like them, like, listen, I am who I am. I don't try to convince anybody one way or the other. You know, some people, it seems like people either really love me or really hate me. There doesn't seem to be a lot in the middle.

Lianne Shinton (13:10)

Yeah.

Larry (13:31)

You know, I'm 54 years old, I'm getting old, I'm tired, I'm totally okay. I don't really care to give it. At one time in my life with all the social media stuff, it would really upset me and bother me when someone had nasty things to say about me or didn't like me. was like, why don't they like me? Like I've never done anything to them. Now I just don't care anymore. You know, it's just, I realize it's part of putting yourself out there.

You have to accept you're going to get a lot of ugliness back if you're always putting yourself out there, you know, and I choose to continue to do that. And every time I say, you know what? I think I'm done with this. I'm a little, I don't need to do this anymore. Someone will send me a message. Perfect timing of just, man, thank you so much. Like the help you gave me. You have no idea what your videos have done or you said this. I'm like, okay, you know, I can't stop it. That makes it all worth it there. You know what I mean?

Lianne Shinton (14:16)

Yeah.

Larry (14:26)

That was a long answer, sorry.

Lianne Shinton (14:27)

Definitely.

No, that got deep. And I think that's what a lot of people need to hear. I talk to doc trainers all the time and they're afraid to put themselves out there. I personally have always leaned into, I don't want to talk about on my business stuff. I don't want to talk about politics or religion. You know, I miss those days, but the world has shifted and it's, it's, it's tough to navigate.

Larry (14:34)

Right.

Mm-hmm.

It is, it really is. And sometimes it's really hard to keep your mouth shut when you know you're going to regret saying something. And I know when I think about something, I probably shouldn't say this. I know I'm going to regret it. Like every time I think that I say, should have listened to myself, you know?

Lianne Shinton (15:17)

Yeah, it sounds like your wife has kind of got your back and helps keep maybe you focused on the good things in life instead of starting to get sucked into some of those negative things.

Larry (18:49)

and I'll argue it.

Lianne Shinton (18:52)

We're back. No, you're fine. Is it the storm?

Larry (18:54)

I'm so sorry. This is like so ridiculous.

I'm assuming. Yeah. It was trying to load, go back on and I had to log out and I came back in.

Lianne Shinton (19:08)

It sounds clearer now because it was kind of cutting out before, so maybe it's even better.

Larry (19:12)

OK, all righty.

Lianne Shinton (19:14)

So are you okay picking up where we were kind of leaving off? I really liked what you were saying. And one of the things that stood out is you mentioned your wife and does she kind of keep you on the positive side of life?

Larry (19:16)

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

Hmm.

Yes, always. Always. Yeah. And you know, she left corporate America almost two years ago now. She left a very good career just to run the business side for me. You know, and it's, man, it's taken so much stress away from me. There were times I had three emails going and 77,000 unread messages in each. And at that point you don't bother anymore. You're done. You know, it's like,

You get so overwhelmed and the anxiety kicks in because you're blowing people off and then you're getting nasty messages or you run into them at a seminar. Like you're too big now to respond to me. You have to show people. want to show you something. Right. And I'll show that one email, 70,000 unread emails and they go, holy crap. Like I'm not blowing people off. I'm not ignoring. I'm one person. I chose to keep it that way, you know, and not have a bunch of

20 year old kids working for me because I think I'd be a nightmare as a, I'm an easy person to get along with, but I would be a nightmare. can't have, I can't put my name on something that someone else is doing. You know what I mean? And that's why I've just, I've chosen to keep it like this, you know, just a one man show. And when I need a break, I'll take a break and you know, it's, it's worked so far and I don't know if I'll ever change that to be honest with you, Lianne.

Lianne Shinton (20:38)

Yeah.

Yeah, well, there's not many people who are having to navigate something like that because, you know, you're like a viral dog trainer getting all of these messages and this is new territory. So, yeah, I could see that. You want to keep the authenticity and it being you, but it's weighing on you. So, yeah, it's not many people who are dealing with that.

Larry (20:57)

No.

Yeah.

Yeah. Well, you know, I think I just got in at the right time. Like, like you said, when we met 20 years ago, when the internet thing just started, it was a good time. You know, now everyone it's like everything in any subject you look at today, sports, dog training, everything's gone so far, you know, that the stuff that people were impressed with 20 years ago, we were doing is just standard now, you know, like, and it just keeps getting crazier and crazier.

Lianne Shinton (21:28)

Yeah.

Larry (21:49)

And I never want to be one of those, you know, I don't have the kind of following the platform that a lot of these big social media trainers have. And I don't want it because I see so many of these people, especially younger people, I don't see them ever improve as dog trainers. They get bigger, but they put so much effort into the social media and filming and creating content that the dog training never changes. You know, when, if I look back at myself, the way I was

training five, six years ago, I know I'm doing a better job today. And eventually that's the progression I want to keep, keep getting to, till the day I'm done doing this, you know, because the second I stopped getting better and, just tried to grow my audience per se, I'm done. I don't want to ever want to be in that boat, you know.

Lianne Shinton (22:34)

Hmm.

Yeah. And I think you already answered my next question was going to be what's something most people don't know about your field because yeah, you're a dog trainer. You help a lot of working dogs and you help people on the digital space. There's not many of us doing that. So I think what I already kind of took away is that, you know, there's a lot that weighs on you that you can't answer all of these, you know, messages that are coming in and trying to navigate that and

Larry (23:06)

Sure.

Lianne Shinton (23:06)

Yeah,

your world is unique. But did you have anything else that you would like to share about what's something most people don't know about your field?

Larry (23:19)

⁓ man, you know, it's funny because.

I do quite a bit of stuff on the working side and sports side of things when it comes to behavioral problems, right? If someone calls me and says, hey, I want to be an IGP national champion, then I'm not your guy, right? I haven't had success in that field. I don't do that. Or someone says, I want to excel at agility. not sure. I'm going to send you to the right people. What I do.

find a lot of success in is I get a lot of people from different areas of sport and working dogs that have behavioral problems or struggling in this and struggling in that, you know, and I've done very well on that side of things. And I enjoy that part because I'm dealing with people that want to be better, that are always trying to be better. They have dogs that want to do things. And so I, I really enjoy.

that side of what I do. And thankfully I get to do it often. On the flip side, you know, what made me who I am and what I'm known for and what I still enjoy very much is the pet dog side of things with behavioral problems, right? And I'll never take that for granted. I'm very grateful to how many people have just trusted me and just given me what I have today in dogs. But at the same time, man, it could be draining.

when you're dealing with someone that doesn't want to be better or doesn't have the ability to be better, because not everyone's going to be good at this. And I'm very honest about that. And you have this person that no matter how much they want to get better, they don't have the ability. And then they go out and they get a working line German Shepherd or a high drive Rottweiler or a Malinois. And that's something I see every single.

day of my life. And that can be exhausting because I put so much effort into the human side of things. And what I tell people is and I never tell them like directly, but in general, I say this a lot. You can send me away to a school for a year to teach me how to rebuild engines or build a house or rewire a home, you know, I'm never going to be good at it. I don't have a handy bone in my body. That's not in my DNA.

Like you can't make me be good at fixing and building things, right? And unfortunately, there's a lot of people that are like that when it comes to dogs. They don't have that feel, that understanding, no matter how much you work with them, they're never going to grasp it. And that could be very difficult because these are the same people going out and getting very difficult breeds, know, very strong breeds. I truly believe that

Like people have to stop. I can make a living just off working line German shepherds going to pet pet homes where the people don't want to do cool German shepherd things. They just want to pet and they want the insane behavior to stop and it's not going to happen. You know, that is the kind of stuff that breaks you down and wears you down. I get I do about two online consultations a day. People all over the world. I just I had one before you.

Lianne Shinton (26:13)

Mm-hmm.

Larry (26:37)

I have one after you. This gentleman I just did a session with in Finland. He sent me his videos for me to look at. was like, man, this guy's really good. He's got a great dog. And then I, you know, I came out in such a good mood after the hour because my wife's like, you have a good goal? like, yeah, this guy was great. Like he just got it and he's done so much right already. There was like one little piece that he was missing that was so easy to fill in. You know what I mean? But on the flip side, you get the people that, hey,

Lianne Shinton (27:03)

Yeah.

Larry (27:07)

I have four dogs, two of them are killing each other inside the same home, you know, and they can't take one dog for a walk nicely. Like everything's a struggle. You know what I mean? And they want some quick fix or answer. There is no such thing. You know, my job is to make anyone I work with the best dog handler possible. Like that's my job, not a dog trainer. I don't expect everyone to be a dog trainer, right? But anything I do with a dog or

Lianne Shinton (27:19)

Yeah.

Larry (27:36)

In my opinion, anyone, any dog trainer, you could be the best dog trainer in the world. Anything you do with that dog is temporary. And the only way we can make it permanent is by the education we give to human. So for 15, 16, 17 years now, that's where I've put my effort. How could I be the best teacher possible? But at the same time, making things so simple, right? That people have a hard time failing.

And it's gone really well, but you're still going to run into people that are just outmatched with what they have for a dog, you know?

Lianne Shinton (28:10)

Yes. ⁓ burnout was definitely something that, you know, you've spoken on in a couple of these little short conversations. Do you have any tips for, I, I get that sometimes you get some positivity come in, you've got your wife, any tips for dog trainers that are experiencing the burnout.

Larry (28:27)

Yeah.

Yeah, there's a couple of things. For one, I'm in a unique position. So I'm not an idiot. When I talk to trainers and younger trainers, especially, I have the benefit and the luxury of being able to only work with people I want to work with. You know, I get that. Not everyone's in that position. People have bills to pay. They have facilities and employees to pay.

I've done a lot of dumb things, but again, going back to keeping it small, the one smart thing I've done is I've never gotten in a position where I couldn't just take a month or two off if I wanted to. And at the same time, I have, I'm retired from a very good full-time career. You understand? And I think the reason I was able to stay with the dog so long is because I never had to do it to make a living. So I was able to do it in an honest way, the way I wanted to, because

you know, financially we were good. My wife had a great career. I had a great career. The dog stuff was supposed to be just on the side. didn't last long on the side. Even when I was a full time federal agent, the dogs were full time too. I was going nonstop seven days a week for 25 years. That's insanity. I don't know how I did it looking back. That's why I got exhausted. You know what I mean? But

you start to realize then like I used to stress so much during seminars. Like I used to get like physically ill before a seminar because you got people traveling sometimes from all over the world to see you and work with you. And the last thing you want to do is let people down. And there was a time where I thought I had to fix every dog on the spot. And that was stressful, right? Until you start realizing, wait a minute, it's my job to provide the education.

Lianne Shinton (30:01)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Larry (30:24)

and give the information and do as much work as we can, of course, right? But a seminar is a realistic place to train a dog. It's very unfair to the dog. It's very unfair to the human. And so I make sure we go over all that now. And I also tell them we're going to do things this weekend that I wouldn't do in real life. We're doing it because we're here and I want you to understand it and learn it. But when you get back home, now it's your job to go back to the beginning and do it.

Lianne Shinton (30:35)

Yeah.

Larry (30:53)

Right. You take the information and you do it in a way where it is more fair to the dog and to yourself. You know, and I also in the mornings, I told my buddies, Jay and Joel this when we do seminars together, I don't think about what I'm going to do with the dogs anymore and think about this problem. What I do in the mornings before a seminar every day now, I tell myself, my job is to go out there, be very grateful to these people.

better sacrifice and everything there would be there and treat them like they deserve to be treated and have a good time. And the day I started doing that, it's very difficult to fail at that point, you know, and it's part of the reason we have such a good time when we're doing these things like we, truly do have a good time. You're always going to have someone that wants to disturb things no matter what, like, but it's rare. It doesn't happen often. And usually when someone has a bad experience,

It comes out of embarrassment and frustration when they expect you to lie to them and sugarcoat things and they want to hear what they want to hear. They don't want to hear what they need to hear. And I'm never going to lie to someone who's paying me to help them. If you pay me to help you, I'm going to be on, I'll do everything I can. I'll bend over backwards to help you, but I'm going to be honest with you, you know, and if you're in a situation.

Lianne Shinton (31:55)

⁓

Larry (32:16)

where I have to tell you this is a danger for you to have this dog. Like I'm scared that you're gonna wind up hurt really bad or worse. I'm going to tell you that. I'm not gonna tell you, yeah, we could fix this. And I do turn a lot of people away simply because I know you can't succeed in the situation that you're in.

Lianne Shinton (32:37)

Yeah, definitely. I think it takes time and confidence and practice and dealing with being more blunt and direct, but sometimes it's like I have to do it in business and I'll help a dog trainer with their business. run their CRM and I can see, hey, you know, there's this happening. I'm going to be straight with you because I can take three months to show you gently what's happening, but that's going to cause you a lot of pain to have to wait to figure this out.

Larry (32:59)

Yeah.

Lianne Shinton (33:06)

more organically, so now I'm just going to tell you straight up. And it took me a while to get there in confidence. But yeah, burnout was something that we all face. I was just recommended to read this book. A fellow dog trainer has been in this for a long time too. And he said that he was dating a yoga girl and she turned him onto this book. And I can't even say the name of it right now, but it's like a three hour read.

Larry (33:10)

Sure.

Lianne Shinton (33:36)

and I started it and there's a bit of religion to it and I'm not super, I don't like to talk about things like that anyway because I don't like to talk about politics and religion and stuff. But there is a bit of that, but I'm a very open-minded person and yeah, I've started listening to it and it's really good. So I'm gonna be doing a podcast on that particular book and how it's helped other dog trainers.

Larry (33:45)

Hmm.

Yeah.

nice. I look forward to hearing

about that. Yeah.

Lianne Shinton (34:04)

Yeah, I wish I could

tell you the name right now, but yeah, it's one of those books that you put on and you're actually listening and not just hearing noise in the background. So, all right. So my next question, and I thought this one might be interesting here. What's a strong opinion you have that you'll defend no matter what?

Larry (34:11)

Mm. I like that.

Oof. ⁓ man. That can go really deep.

my gosh.

Well...

Just dogs or in general.

Lianne Shinton (34:48)

in general, whatever comes to mind.

Larry (34:52)

⁓ okay. Well, something that is ingrained very deeply in me and has nothing to do with dogs, but it can go back to dogs too, is I think, I think there's people that have been put on this earth that have the ability and because they have the ability, in my opinion, they have the responsibility to protect the weaker and

I never realized that about me until I started getting older and there were certain situations where it's weird, it's too long of story to get into, but I had an incident on a plane once when my wife was with me and it was weird. They had to separate us, not for fighting or anything, just how the seating went on. And my wife wound up sitting next to this lady who was actually flying back to the hometown, lived right near each other.

And this lady started asking questions about, and she kind of told my wife who I was. And she was some kind of, not religious person, not a therapist, but like this spiritual person that did a lot of this stuff in the background. And ⁓ they just got deeper into who I am deep inside as a person where I have this, it's not something I do consciously. I can't watch a child, a woman, the elderly.

an animal, I don't have that ability to turn away from someone in one of those categories being treated poorly. You know, and ⁓ I'm, I'm a very emotional and ⁓ sensitive person, which most people would not believe, but it's the truth. My wife's probably going, is this a dog podcast? But that's who, that's who I am. And I think the older I get,

Lianne Shinton (36:32)

Bye.

you

Larry (36:48)

the worst it even gets, right? But what comes the flip side of that is I can be an extremely aggressive human being when necessary. And that means if I see someone being treated poorly or taken advantage of or being abused, and the same thing with an animal, I don't have the ability to look away and not act in a very, very harsh way when needed. I just don't have that ability. I wish I did.

You know, like I look at someone like, ⁓ like my, like my wife has, she can never turn away from that too, but the way she handles things is much healthier on herself. You know, my, my son is a very, very sensitive, like Buddhist kind of loving individual. Nothing shakes him. My wife calls him the avatar. You know what I mean? Like nothing phases him. He's, he's good to go. I just believe that.

There are people, like I said, that cannot turn that off and I think they're put here for a reason. You know what I mean? And I just, it's something I feel deep. So an issue I had in the dog world many times, Leigh I told people not too long ago, they said, the next person that sends me a video of a dog being abused, I'm blocking you. Because I can't look at that and then go on with my day. It's something that affects me in such a deep horrific way and I can't turn it off.

Lianne Shinton (37:52)

Mm-hmm.

Larry (38:15)

And then I start having these visions and these reactions that are not healthy for my own well-being and health. really isn't, you know what I mean? But people will continue to do it. And listen, usually I wind up acting on it. And I have been part of some big cases where I had to put it forward and follow up on things. But in the end, nothing happens to these people. And it's like, I still carry that weight around.

Lianne Shinton (38:25)

Yeah.

Mmm.

Larry (38:45)

And what happened because of it? Listen, I was part of a case a little over a year ago. Someone sent me a video of a guy. Someone was going from a distance. He was abusing this dog in a crate. It was German Shepherd. I shared it, put it out there. It wound up going massively viral, right? Wound up being interviewed on the news out in Kansas City. They wound up locking the guy up. I don't know what it was. So at least there was some good things that went with it.

Literally a year later, this is recent, a year later, my inbox on every platform is blowing up, people wishing me dead, making that threats ripping me apart. And I'm going, what the hell is this? And I start reading these messages and it's this video that some rescue got a hold of, started resharing it and they put my name on it. I don't know if they did it on purpose or just wasn't thinking. So now you got all these people thinking I'm the guy in the video.

Lianne Shinton (39:34)

and

rough

Larry (39:39)

Not the guy

who exposed it, I'm the guy in the video. And it goes even further to where some people are like, you idiot, he's not the guy in the video, he's the guy filming it. And then people are like, how could you film it? I'm neither. I exposed it, you know what I mean? And that's when I put out the message that the next person that sends me something like that, I just block you, I want nothing to do with you. Because that was, I had to put out videos explaining it and I was like, I'm done. Like I don't want no part of that anymore, you know?

Lianne Shinton (39:52)

Yeah.

Larry (40:08)

Those are the things that people don't see that goes on behind the scenes. Yeah, you're one person, you send me this one video. What happens when 50 other people send me stuff? You know what I mean? And I don't have the biggest platform, but they know that I'm going to do something and say something, because I'm a big mouth and I can't keep my mouth shut with stuff. But no more, I stay away from that stuff.

Lianne Shinton (40:19)

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, when you spoke on how you respond when the week is getting hurt or abused or anything like that, that was so powerful. I'm like, don't even know what to say to respond to that. But I did think of something and it was something that a former police officer said to me when I was talking about like, I accidentally watched the video of Charlie Kirk getting shot and I can't unsee that. And he said,

Larry (40:56)

Hmm.

Lianne Shinton (40:59)

You know, we're not really meant to reprocess seeing those things and processing them. And then you poor people that deal with being a police officer, you know, being an agent, like, ⁓ boy.

Larry (41:13)

Yeah, when people get into those conversations, especially on the federal side and you have people on both sides of the fence, when someone wants to talk to me about that, I'll always take a second and say, okay, I'm going to give you not my opinion. I won't tell you how I feel or what I think about this certain subject, especially the way things are today, right? But I'll just give you the facts on this subject so you can make your own decision. And just the straight things I know that I've experienced that have been part of and still part of.

And when people have a complete opposite opinion of me in that subject.

or they think they know that subject, I usually get one of two reactions when I give them specific examples, right? They either think I'm lying because it's so outrageous or they're just blown away and have a completely different outlook and understand why I feel the way I do about certain things. And my wife reminds me often, she's like, you know,

Lianne Shinton (42:03)

Mm-hmm.

Larry (42:16)

I would feel the same way they did if I wasn't married to you, if I didn't know. The only reason I know is because I'm married to you. So I see things that you said been part of this for, you know, we've been together 36 years since high school. She has seen it all. She saw it from day one. And that's why people have such a hard time that I think this way about this subject, but completely opposite about some social issue. makes no sense to them. Well, it's because I have a brain and I could separate things.

So many people today, you either belong to this party or that party. I can never imagine just belonging to a party because there's so many different ideas that get bounced around, right? So I think on the subject and I don't think too much about subjects that I know nothing about. At least I try not to. But the things that I have massively strong opinions on is because I lived it. I lived it and I experienced it and I saw it because when I first got on the job,

Lianne Shinton (42:59)

Mm-hmm.

Larry (43:15)

I had very different opinions of that stuff, very different opinions. And within the first year I was like, boy, okay, I was lied to and I didn't know this actually went on. So my wife doesn't like me talking to people. If we go to a party or something, we don't do that too much anymore and there's gonna be people I don't know always on the way at least one time, no politics. Always.

Lianne Shinton (43:41)

Mm-hmm. I totally get that. Yeah. Yeah

Okay. Well, let me give you a question that I think is Gonna be inspiring and more positive because we've been getting into some good like emotional stuff ⁓ But I think it's good because it's real and it's gonna help people So my next question is what's a goal that you're quietly working towards?

Larry (43:45)

Mm.

Yeah.

Sure.

⁓ okay. wow. We were just talking about this today, me and my wife. I think we're at a stage of our life. You know, we've, we've both worked real hard for a long time. We've lived beneath our means. We haven't gone crazy and our kids are doing really well. We have two really great kids that are man. They're just, their future is so bright. I think we're both ready to, to find a place on the beach where we've always gone on vacation.

once a year for one week on a good year, maybe twice a year. And I think we're about to make that move and slow down and enjoy life in a very different way. Because we've been since we got married, you know, we got we were young, we were in high school when we started dating. And so when we first got married, we went nuts. We just partied and traveled and lived an exciting life. And we waited a while to have kids, which was great.

You know, we got to really enjoy each other. And then once we had kids, man, life really gets busy then, you know, and my son's got two years of high school left. My daughter is doing phenomenal in college. And I think in the, over the next two years, when my boy decides what he's going to do with college and stuff, I think we're going to go to our paradise and try to spend a lot more time there and buy a small house on the beach and, probably split our time between where we're at now and, and

and down where we are. But we've literally never talked to really anybody about that. We don't even really tell our families that. Because at one point, I think the boy we both grew up to that seemed so far fetch. You know what I mean? And we're not filthy rich or wealthy or anything, but we've been pretty smart and haven't just blown all our money on toys. We don't have any toys. So I think that's what the...

Lianne Shinton (45:48)

Mm.

Larry (46:01)

That's something we've both wanted for a real long time. And when we first started going where we go down on the Gulf, you know, on the West coast of Florida, North, it just seemed like paradise to us. It's that we never envisioned, hey, maybe we can live here someday. But I think that's what we're we're working towards now.

Lianne Shinton (46:19)

That is outstanding. I'm so happy for you. Being near the ocean definitely is calming and beautiful, the wildlife, the dolphins and stuff.

Larry (46:24)

Okay.

It's

incredible. When we were younger, my wife was a beach person. I hated it. I couldn't lay there and do nothing. And now when I'm down there, hey, you want to go do this? You want to go do some adventures, plan this? No, I'm at the beach. My cooler is next to me. I'm not moving. I'm getting down there in the morning, and I'm not leaving till tonight. I'm not leaving the beach. I love it. I absolutely love it.

Lianne Shinton (46:37)

Yeah.

Hahaha!

That sounds awesome. Okay, ⁓ this one is interesting. If money was no object, what would your dream job be?

Larry (47:06)

My dream job, okay, it has nothing to do with money. I've always said my dream job would be to be a fighter pilot. That would be the ultimate for me. Like I'm too big and I get very sick. So that would never work out, right? ⁓ But as far as money goes, you know, it's crazy. This is gonna be a really boring answer. Lianne, when I was younger, there were things that I thought I would love to do as a career, right? But I actually did.

what I wanted to do. I wouldn't change anything. Like if I hit the power ball tomorrow, and I just sounds so ridiculous and cheesy, but I'm being a hundred percent honest, there's a good percentage of men out there that would dream of being a federal agent and being paid to do that. You know, that, was something that I wanted to do and I did it. But at the same time, if money wasn't an issue anymore, I'd still be training dogs. I would just do it for free. And I did it for free for a long time when I started.

Lianne Shinton (47:38)

Mm.

Yeah.

Larry (48:06)

You know, I would do it every now and then I do a few different free things, free group classes for anyone that wants to come. And they're usually like mini seminars, five, six hour group classes. People come from all over. try to do one or two free combat vet seminars a year. I haven't done any in a while because I just haven't been able to get a location at the time. The, my favorite things to do by far in dog training is the free stuff.

And the thing I feel guilty about is people like to give me nice gifts and thank me. They're so appreciative of my generosity, but I don't think I'm being generous because I feel good doing it. So I am getting probably more out of it than what the people are, but it just feels nice when there's no ties to business and money and you don't have to do it. And you get to see the appreciation and the joy on people's faces that maybe couldn't afford it.

you know, in any other way. So if money wasn't an object, I'd still be doing that, except I would have my own big piece of property, not far from here, you know, where I could have people there and probably have some ⁓ buildings set up, some small homes, some dorms, where a couple times a year I invite certain people come in and we have this little adventure where we're training dogs for the week and there's no charge associated with that. That's what I would be doing.

Lianne Shinton (49:33)

Such a good answer, wow.

Larry (49:36)

Yeah,

it's boring. wish there was something I wanted to do, you know, but there really wasn't. I'm a big hunter, so people say, would you like to be, you know, get paid to No, no. As much as I love it, when you're waking up at 3.30 in the morning in the middle of winter and going out and hunting all day till night after two or three weeks, you're a zombie. So no, I wouldn't want to do it for a living. would ruin my love for it, you know? So no, I wouldn't.

Lianne Shinton (49:57)

Yeah.

you

Yeah, and I think so many people choose a different path if they get asked that question of like, what would you be doing if money and then they don't choose the field that they're in. But yeah, as dog trainers, you know, we want to work with the animals, we want to work with dogs. So yeah, that's, that was a great answer.

Larry (50:09)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I've never been able to do something I don't want to do. I can't. I don't have it in me. Like I am, am such a baby when it comes to something like that. Like it's a, told Stephanie the other day, my first job out of high school, I was working in a warehouse in New Jersey, right next to giant stadium where I grew up and I was miserable. I hated it.

Lianne Shinton (50:26)

Yeah.

Larry (50:42)

And I remember walking in one day with this old guy. was an old Puerto Rican man that had been working there 50 something years. His name was Santos. I owe Santos a lot. And I'm walking in and I said to Santos, man, I hate this place. I got to get out of here. And he went, huh, you'll be here the rest of your life, just like me. And I said, no, I won't. He went, huh, yes, you will. I used to say the same thing. I literally stopped and I never went in. I quit and I never went back. And I said at that moment, until I become a federal agent,

I'm not working again. And that's pretty much what I did. He scared me so much that I was getting into that routine and I didn't want to be someplace. I couldn't imagine waking up every day to go to work doing something I hated. So for the majority of my career as an agent, I loved it. Like I couldn't believe I was getting paid to do it. And it's the same thing with the dogs. There's times where I'm thinking I'm in Australia, I'm in Scotland, I'm in England, I'm getting paid.

to do something that I would do for free. So I can't complain. I'm very, very lucky.

Lianne Shinton (51:47)

Wow, wow, very pivotal moment and that you were open to hearing and pivoting and taking action. ⁓ You mentioned all the places that you've been because of the dogs and the dog training and the people that go with them. What's one of your favorite places?

Larry (51:54)

Mmm.

Yeah.

⁓ I haven't been to a ton overseas, but what's interesting is the people in the countries I just mentioned were absolutely amazing. Like when I went to Australia, there were times I was uncomfortable. They treated me so well, just the nicest people on earth. And then it was the same thing in England and Scotland, such warm, welcoming, like just sincere people.

They almost killed me with the drinking. Like you couldn't say no, everybody wants to drink with you. And like, I literally thought I was going to die after 19 days of drinking, but man, just good hearted, generous people that would just give you the shirt off their back, you know, and it's, it's good to get out and see other places outside of the United States, but even here too. And I think, and this isn't something, you know, I never set out to do or thought of, but.

People think that I've given so much away for free and dog training that they're so generous back to me now, you know, without me asking and without me wanting to be honest with that. get very uncomfortable with accepting things, but it's something that I never thought of like, Hey, I'm giving away free information. No, just thought I was, as I learned something I like to share because it would probably help someone else. And as I would continue to learn, I'd continue to share and people have been

Lianne Shinton (53:12)

Hmm.

Larry (53:32)

that people have given that back to me tenfold over the years. really have, you know.

Lianne Shinton (53:37)

Yeah. It's interesting because I ask people, you know, what's your favorite place you've ever been and why, and it sounds like the people is your response. Yeah. For me, it's like, well, like Yellowstone because the nature and the animals, ⁓ know, it's a lot of people choose New Zealand or Australia if they've been there. I have not been to those places, but it's for a different reason. It's the people or it's the animals.

Larry (53:49)

yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, see, I was supposed to go back to Australia and New Zealand this year, but I was having health issues while flying, so my wife canceled that. There were a lot of people from New Zealand and Australia, beautiful people. Like, I can't, the way they treated me was just, and I'd love to go back so bad, and maybe she'll just go with me and keep me alive on the plane or something, I don't know. Yeah.

Lianne Shinton (54:31)

Hopefully. ⁓

Okay, this one will be good for dog trainers. So if you had to rebuild your business from scratch in a new city, brand new, and you were just starting over, you were starting out, weren't, you know, Larry Crone, dog trainer that we all know. ⁓ What's the first thing that you would do? Like, what would you lean into that would be very important to you?

Larry (54:37)

Mm-hmm.

love it. I would put an announcement up in every place I could in that new place. I would pick a big outdoor, beautiful park and I would say, bring your dog and I'm going to teach you how to play with your dog. That's it. That's what I would focus on. Get people how to interact properly and build their dog up in a way for that dog becomes obsessed with the interaction with the human and the dog and

Once I get you there, everything else will fall into place. Everything else is secondary. You know, that's what I spend a lot of my time doing now. ⁓ The play thing has always been a big part of me, but now it's the majority of what I do to get these dogs to where I need them to be. You know, and I owe people like Ivan Balabanoff and Michael Ellis and Bart Boulogne a lot of the concepts and things I've taken, I've just taken from.

the greats that have come before me and shared so much information. I've always tried to take the stuff from the great people I've learned from and pass it down in a simpler way to the everyday dog owner. That's been my job for the past 29 years. And I continue to try to do that.

Lianne Shinton (56:13)

Awesome. So my next question you've already answered, because you mentioned Santos, but what's a small decision that ended up changing your life? Is there another pivotal moment?

Larry (56:27)

Yeah, easy. Taking my wife to the prom. Absolutely. I wasn't at the prom, kind of decent human being. I was very opposite before I met my wife, but I knew if I didn't take her, someone else would. And that was our first date, May 18, 1990. And we've been together ever since. That was hands down the best, smartest decision I ever made.

Lianne Shinton (56:55)

That's so sweet. Okay, let me see if I have any more good questions here.

I know that ⁓ you like going to Nashville. What's your favorite honky tonk over there?

Larry (57:11)

Robert's Western World.

Lianne Shinton (57:13)

I don't think I went into that one.

Larry (57:15)

old school, real country, fried bologna sandwiches you could eat. I love Tootsies too. Tootsies is very touristy, I do love it too. I love it in there. I took my wife, my daughter, her and her friend, I dropped them off at the Ryman for a concert recently. I didn't want them walking down there at night by themselves. So I told my wife, I'm going to take them and drop them off. I'll bring them home. She said, what are you going to do for like seven hours? I said,

Lianne Shinton (57:20)

Oh, oh yeah, vintage artistes.

Larry (57:45)

I'm going from one bar to the other. And I went out by myself. I had a nice dinner at the 1230 club, started drinking bourbon there. And then I hit every single bar on Broadway and had one beer in every bar. I loved it. I had the time of my life. I did. And then my daughter got to drive home. Yeah, absolutely.

Lianne Shinton (57:59)

That sounds fun. Nashville's so cool.

Yeah, that's good.

Awesome. So I have my closing question. have two of them I'm going to choose from. All right. So I'm going to go with what's a random experience that turned into a great story later.

Larry (58:23)

⁓ man. Oof, okay. Me and my wife used to go to Las Vegas a lot. And we used to party when we younger there and we had a great time. And my wife, she's gonna kill me for saying this, she had a tradition that every night we got there for, know, the first night she'd get very sick because we'd go little too hard, right? And I don't know if that was a decision. Wait a second.

No, I can't go there. Never, never mind. Yeah, maybe you should never.

Lianne Shinton (58:56)

I can ask my other question if you want.

Okay, this one will be very heartfelt and positive, I'm sure. If you could relive one day of your life, if you could relive one day of your life, which would you choose?

Larry (59:07)

Yeah.

⁓ you know, I think about this actually often. If I could do anything, that's not possible. I would love to go back to my wedding day, but my kids be there. I know that doesn't make any sense, but when we got married, that's when everyone in our families were together. They were alive. My relatives didn't pass on yet. Right. And like my kids.

Lianne Shinton (59:28)

That's a cool answer.

Hmm.

Larry (59:43)

now have missed out on so much family back home, right? The way I grew up in Jersey, you especially on the Italian side of things, I had so much family around. Like my kids would have loved the way I grew up, where I grew up in Jersey. As matter of fact, they just got to see a lot of it this past week. But if I could fantasize about any one thing to change, I'd love to go back to my wedding day, but have my kids there to truly enjoy it in the best way possible. Silly answer, but...

If reality wasn't a real thing, that's what I would love.

Lianne Shinton (1:00:17)

That's a really cool answer. ⁓ yeah, it's almost like some of these questions like you had heard them before, but I just want it for everybody listening. This is random.

Larry (1:00:26)

I love it. I got

to tell you, Lianne, I love the questions because I hate saying no to someone when they ask me to do a podcast and a lot of young trainers ask me to do it. like, I'll say yes, but then I say, don't do the same crap everyone else does. Don't say, how'd you get started? Tell us a little about yourself. Like do something to do and you're doing that. So I love it. I love these questions. It's a lot of fun.

Lianne Shinton (1:00:49)

Yeah, this is fun. And I think that people listening, you know, they're going to learn much more about you and your family and ⁓ things that others won't ask about like Jurassic Park and such. Awesome. Is there anything else that you'd like to share? Anything that you're working on right now that you want dog trainers to know about?

Larry (1:01:03)

Yeah, I love it. It's cool stuff. I love it. Absolutely.

I wish there was, but I'm pretty simple. I wake up, we do the same thing every day. I have people that drop their dogs and trust me with their dogs for a month at a time. They live with me and my family, just like my dogs do. I see people that travel literally from all over the country to spend four or five days here in Airbnb to do private lessons. I talk to people all over the world for the online consultations every day, but there's nothing exciting.

Lianne Shinton (1:01:20)

Okay.

Larry (1:01:45)

You know, I work with my own puppy when I can, which isn't that much, you know, first thing in the morning and do a little work later on in the day. We, we do some playing together, but, there's nothing new and exciting. I'm still traveling, doing seminars and going to some new locations and meeting more people. Um, I'm not trying to come up with something new and invent something new because I haven't invented anything in dog training up to this point, but I will keep trying to.

to be, I'm a student, a lifelong student, and it's my job to be a student from those who came before me that know more than me, and it's my job to be a teacher that those that came after me and know less than me. And that's what I just continue to try to do.

Lianne Shinton (1:02:38)

Excellent. Thank you, Larry. This has been such an awesome conversation. I just had so much fun. And everybody that was able to listen, I hope that you enjoyed it. Again, it's Larry Crone from Packmasters, P-A-K, masters.com, right? Okay, Packmasters. We'll add your socials and everything into the post. And yeah, thank you everybody for listening. Thank you so much again, Larry. This has been fun.

Larry (1:02:41)

Thank you.

Yeah.

Thanks, Lianne, appreciate it.

Lianne Shinton (1:03:10)

Yeah, everybody have a great day.

it won't stop. Let me see. Yeah, my

We'll edit this, so don't worry. But yeah, it's really weird. Let me try plugging my mousepad in.

Larry (1:03:30)

That was a blast.

I loved your questions. That was so much fun.

Lianne Shinton (1:03:34)

Yeah, you know, was thinking because you've done so many podcasts and I needed to change it up or you'd be bored. So, yeah.

Larry (1:03:42)

That was awesome.

really enjoyed it right off the bat. First question. was like, this is great. I love it. Makes you think too, you know.

Lianne Shinton (1:03:49)

Yeah, and it's insight into your personal, which I think, you know, sometimes people want to hear all the dog stuff is really cool, but it's just become so repetitive.

Larry (1:04:00)

Yeah. does. I agree. I agree. Definitely got me thinking too. I love some of the questions you asked really sent me down memory lane, you know?

Lianne Shinton (1:04:01)

Okay.

Yeah, yeah, it was cool. That was funny when you were like, wait, I shouldn't talk about that with my wife. That was funny. That was so funny. So I don't know, it won't stop recording. ⁓ So I guess I don't know what to do. It's really weird. Maybe it's you, maybe this technology thing in you.

Larry (1:04:29)

It's probably on my end. It's funny too because you're starting to come in very grainy now. So I could almost guarantee it's on my end. So maybe once I click out, then you'll be able to stop.

Lianne Shinton (1:04:35)

Yeah.

Okay, okay. All right. Hopefully it comes out because I know we've had some technical difficulties. I'll keep you posted, but we'll try to air this very quickly as long as it comes out. If not, we'll have to do it again, but it'll be just as fun. All right. Thanks, Larry. All right. See ya. Bye bye.

Larry (1:04:48)

Yeah.

Awesome. I hope so. I hope so. Thanks, Lianne. Appreciate the invite. Take care. Bye bye.

Lianne Shinton (1:05:06)

I don't know why it won't end.

So weird.