Lianne Shinton (00:01)

Hey everybody and welcome. So I'm Lianne Shinton from Automation Dogs and welcome to my podcast. I have this great podcast where we feature professional trainers and occasionally I do a showcase podcast where I interview a local dog trainer that is doing amazing and just helping dogs in their area. And today I have the pleasure of interviewing a long time dog trainer friend, Mike Harvey. Hi Mike.

Michael (00:30)

Hey, how are ya?

Lianne Shinton (00:31)

I'm great. How are you? Good. ⁓ awesome. Awesome. Well, we'll make it fun. We'll ask some fun questions and learn more about you and your business. Your business being the canine coach and you're located obviously in Florida, Sarasota area, right?

Michael (00:33)

I'm good. good. It's my first podcast, so I'm excited.

Alright.

Mm-hmm.

Yep. 24 years.

Lianne Shinton (00:55)

wow. Okay. ⁓ I have been to Sarasota. is quite a beautiful area. Beaches. Wow.

Michael (00:56)

Yeah.

Yes, yes, the keys always like the top five in the country. It's it's a lot top one a lot, but it's always in the top five.

Lianne Shinton (01:06)

us.

Awesome, do you get to go to the beach very often?

Michael (01:14)

Yeah, we haven't been in a while, but like on Sundays they do a drum circle. So me and my daughter go there and like she, you know, they always have like belly dancers and stuff like that. And so she'll go and dance and play tambourines. And when it gets dark out, they'll have like the LED butterfly wings and everybody's kind of dancing around and stuff. That's really cool.

Lianne Shinton (01:29)

⁓ fun.

That's cool. I stayed in Bradenton ⁓ for two months, which is fairly close to Sarasota. And I was able to take Flirty to a causeway or something where I could swim her.

Michael (01:44)

Yeah, it's just north of me.

Yeah.

Yeah. 75th causeway that goes to Anne Marie Island. Yeah.

Lianne Shinton (01:53)

Yeah, yes, and wow.

One of the cool things too was there were horses. They would bring horses and swim the horses. I think it was like a tour or something.

Michael (02:05)

Yep.

Yeah. Yeah. They do it. Every time I have to drive out there for training, I always see the horses. And like, did you see any dolphins?

Lianne Shinton (02:18)

Not that time, no, but wow.

Michael (02:20)

Like,

especially when you see boats going by, you'll see like the dolphins kind of chasing the boats or swimming next to them and stuff. It happens a lot.

Lianne Shinton (02:28)

Gosh, yeah, being near

the ocean, seeing wildlife, that's my dream. Yeah. So.

Michael (02:36)

Yeah. Well, when you come

to Florida next time, and then we'll make sure we get you set up to do something like that.

Lianne Shinton (02:45)

Yeah, that would be amazing. I love Florida. One of my favorite, favorite places and we hope to move there very soon. Yes, yes, August, August is the plan. But let's dive into you and your dog training story. I've known you for a long time and I really love seeing you in your canine coach uniform right now because it's the way I remember you, the hat.

Michael (02:52)

What you been saying?

Lianne Shinton (03:14)

such an awesome logo and brand with the dog and the whistle. Is that Missy?

Michael (03:18)

Whistle, yeah.

No, actually, I went to an ICP conference. It was my first one. And Robin McFarland's husband did a seminar about branding and, you know, like showed the McDonald's logo, Liberty Mutual, and like you can identify just from the logo. And then a friend of mine, Lisa Flynn, I was like, man, I got to get a logo. And she sent me to this website. And I had

people bid and send me what they had. And then I picked on this one and then we just worked one-on-one to kind of refine it and stuff. I've been having it since for like 20 years now, 19 years.

Lianne Shinton (04:01)

Wow. It's the most perfect logo. And I thought of Missy because she, ⁓ she was a very, very special, special dog. Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ I have my most perfect angel here, flirty. And again, it's a one in a million. She just turned 10 and it's breaking my heart a little bit because I love that time with the older dogs, but it's also.

Michael (04:05)

Yeah. One in a million. Yeah. Miss that dog. Miss that dog so much.

I'm flirting now.

Yeah.

Lianne Shinton (04:30)

you know, kind of sad.

Michael (04:31)

You

can't see him do this at like same thing like Leda. She's about to turn 10 and like she has trouble jumping like sometimes she has trouble jumping into the truck or jumping on the bed when I invite her and like off for me.

Lianne Shinton (04:44)

Yeah, yeah, it's a special time. you know, it's a gift the short time that we have with them. I'm getting choked up. Okay. Well, what kind of dog is Lita? Okay, okay, I figured so.

Michael (04:55)

She's a Belgian Malinois.

Yeah, and then I just got a rescued a male named Kuma. And he's just a big it's like the first time I got a Malmwala it's just all goofy. And not like, you know, all serious. You know what mean? Yeah.

Lianne Shinton (05:04)

Right?

He's a boy. He's a boy. Awesome.

Well, ⁓ I've known you forever. So could you share with the listeners though, how you got started in dog training? Was there something like a pivotal moment? Like how did you get into this?

Michael (05:29)

Yeah.

So I was, I was living in Fort Myers. was bartending nightclubs and stuff like that music scene, which, you know, I was like part of my, my jam, you know, and I was dating a girl that was going to school down there and she was graduating to be an occupational therapist. And it was just like, you know, when you do it for a certain period of time, it just starts to wear on you, know, late nights, you know what I mean? And I was just like,

what else can I do? can't go back and like, just didn't see myself going back to college. And I didn't even know what for. And we took a trip to Universal Studios. And we watched the Pet Act. You know, like all these different animals that were trained to perform. And I looked at her and I was like, like, man, I really like to do something like that. And then her mom got me a subscription to dog fancy.

Lianne Shinton (06:12)

Mm-hmm.

Michael (06:27)

because I had a German Shepherd at the time and I love my dog. I saw, and like we were looking at, there was like a University of Florida had like some kind of course for it. And then there was a place in California that had one. And then, I always had a thing with dogs, like even at three years old, my first dog was a German Shepherd. If you remember a movie in 1989, which in Belushi called Canine.

Lianne Shinton (06:28)

I remember that one.

yeah.

Michael (06:54)

And I was like, I want my dog to do that. You know what I mean? And so I've gone through dog fantasy and I see an ad for national canine. And I had been researching dog training schools and then I saw that and I looked it up and it had everything that I was looking to do. So the school there 2002. And then two years later, I went to the ISCP conference and

You know, got introduced to ⁓ sit means sit and all that. And then I went to school. I went to a seminar a couple of months after that in 2004 in Baltimore. And the first dog, ⁓ Fred Hassan took out was a dog that was fearful men. And I watched this dog freak out over me just going before the seminar started to get a bottle of water and tied the dog tied the lady to the chair and pulled her over and everything. And I watched this guy in 20 minutes.

have the dog walking with the leash on and speaking and then sitting and staring at him and invited every guy in the audience to come pet the dog and the dog just sat there. And I'm like, sign me up. And so, and that's what really started like being able to handle behavior problems in a so much more efficient way and making it easy for the clients to overcome them too. So that's kind of what.

Lianne Shinton (08:03)

Yeah.

Michael (08:21)

what got me started and then, you know, I said goodbye to bartending because I was doing that part time as my business grew. And I was able to say, all right, see you later. I'm doing this full time.

Lianne Shinton (08:32)

Nice. Kind of a similar journey as me. went to National Canine as well. And I have a Jim Belushi story. I got to meet him. Yeah, he's a yeah, he I was doing an animal acting thing in Las Vegas. And I was waiting staging ready to bring the puppy into the the the scenario. And he was part of it. He was a hired actor and the I was providing the dog and

Michael (08:38)

Yeah, that's right. You told me that.

All you do, get out.

Okay.

Lianne Shinton (08:59)

So I'm sitting there in like the back room of, you know, the alleyway of the hotel with this puppy. And in the back door comes Jim Belushi and his band. And I just was like, my gosh, that's Jim Belushi. And he came up and he just was so wonderful and kind and talked to the dog and everything. It's funny because Fred was sitting with me, but he was so focused on his phone that he didn't look up.

Michael (09:22)

Uh-huh.

Yeah. Yeah. ⁓

Lianne Shinton (09:26)

He just thought Leanne's talking to some guy, whatever, about dogs, you know? And then

Michael (09:27)

yeah. ⁓

Lianne Shinton (09:32)

I elbowed him and as Jim was walking away, I'm like, that was Jim Belushi. And he was like, ⁓ my God. I'm like, you missed it. You can't be so tied to your phone, man. But.

Michael (09:37)

Yeah.

So

⁓ he has ⁓ a show on A &E coming out next week called Canine. And he just kind of like, it's the police videos. ⁓ I guess he's just gonna like have all those live PD, you know I mean? Where they're videoing their stops and stuff like that. So it's gonna specialize in canine. So I'm gonna start watching that. ⁓ it's pretty good.

Lianne Shinton (09:48)

really?

Yeah.

the,

I'm gonna watch that too. I actually named that puppy ⁓ after his character in the movie. ⁓ Cause his character was detective Mike Dooley. So I named the puppy Dooley. Yeah. Yeah. Cause it was just an impactful moment and he was just so nice. You know, we meet some celebrities and he just really stood out. He was super nice. But anyway, we digress talking about fun things. So

Michael (10:17)

yeah?

Get out. ⁓ that's awesome.

Right.

Lianne Shinton (10:39)

My next question is like what inspired you to build a career helping dogs and their owners, but you've kind of already answered that. But I guess the owner, the owner's part stands out because I think, you know, when we all get into dog training, dogs are cool. We love dogs, but there's that pivotal moment where we're like, my gosh, we're really helping. Like you mentioned that lady with the fearful dog, like we're impacting families lives.

Michael (11:03)

Right. And, ⁓ you know, like we talked about, ⁓ previously about burnout and stuff like that. And, ⁓ you know, I think it was right around like, nine is where I was starting to get really frustrated because you care about the dog and you're giving the owner the information, but they're not connecting with it. And, ⁓ once I realized that I was a people trainer,

and a dog trainer, I was like, okay, this is my job really is teaching them how to one, understand they have an animal in their home. over the last 20, 30 years, dogs have changed. Now they're our sons or our daughter, you know what mean? That they see them that way. And, you

Lianne Shinton (11:56)

Mm-hmm.

Michael (11:59)

showing people they could still have that relationship but having to balance it. You know what mean? And making sure that you're seeing it as a part of the family but understanding that's a different species.

Lianne Shinton (12:12)

Well said. And the name of your business too, the canine coach, I think the word coach, you know, it really resonates that you are a coach for the owners.

Michael (12:19)

Yeah.

Yeah, my tagline

is making family and pets a winning team.

Lianne Shinton (12:28)

I like that. Yeah, yeah. And I get the burnout because it, we see folks who just, they have a life and work and kids and then they got this dog and they're not like us that are like dog trainer, passion. They just want their dog to listen and I totally get that. But it really takes experience and coaching skills for people. And you've obviously evolved into that over time and

Michael (12:57)

I'm still

evolving, still evolving.

Lianne Shinton (12:58)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Michael (13:01)

Yeah, you turn me on to, what was that trainer, Michael Ellis?

Lianne Shinton (13:06)

yeah.

Michael (13:07)

Yeah, I've been watching, like, as soon as you said that, I started looking at YouTube and now it's flooding my feed. like, the first video I watched, it was off of Leeberg.

Lianne Shinton (13:17)

Yep. Lerberg, yeah.

Michael (13:19)

or Learburg or whatever. And

I watched the whole thing and it was like, wow, like I took so many things off of that. You know what I mean? And listening to his journey, like he used to be like balanced training and then he brought the food in and there's a way that you could do both, you the way you explain things.

Lianne Shinton (13:37)

Yeah, I think it's when people are looking for a dog trainer, it's good when they find someone like you who is a student for life. You're not like, I'm the best. I'm an expert. You're trying to continue evolving and learning even at this stage where you've been dog training for ever.

Michael (13:57)

Right, yeah, can't keep complacent.

And you can't like, you know, I was in my 30s when I started. And, you know, when you start having success overcoming major behavior problems, does inflate your ego. You know what I mean? And, you know, now I kind of I'm more humble toward it. But I know I still incapable of seeing the situation and know how to how to fix it.

Lianne Shinton (14:15)

Mm-hmm.

Michael (14:29)

You know?

Lianne Shinton (14:30)

Yeah, such a good resource for locals in that area. Maybe you mentioned the word like behavior problems. You got into dog training and saw this fearful dog, the quick transformation, life changing. Maybe share a little bit about some clients that you've worked with, behavior problems that you commonly help with.

Michael (14:50)

Yeah,

when you gave me ⁓ that question, was like sitting there trying to think of all the ones that I helped. And it was hard to pinpoint, like, what, it's been so long. But the one you just mentioned, Rosie, was a Havanese. She was four years old. And for like the first three and a half years of her life, when she was in a crate at a Breeders. And I've never seen a dog

so fearful and hold on to it for so long. And I had to really take my time with her. did like a lot of just sitting with her, her, you know, giving her, she didn't even know how to be touched. Like soon as you even, no matter what the pressure was you touch, she'd block up, right? And they're snowbirds here. So I saw her yesterday at their condo and...

The fact that she got off her place and came up and was wagging her tail and you know, like greet me and like they're like, she really likes you. like, I hope so. Cause I like my board and trains like two weeks. And I said, look, let me just keep her. I ended up keeping her for like five weeks because that's what she needed. You know I mean? She needed time. It wasn't those ones where you can just like, like the layers of an onion. can't just cut it. You know what I mean? So.

Lianne Shinton (15:48)

off.

Yeah.

Michael (16:13)

Um, and she's still a work in progress, but like from, uh, from when I started with her and then like when I was taken to my group classes for that month and the people that were coming consistent and they're like, Oh my God, like I can't believe that's the same dog. So those are the kinds of things that really. Like this is why I do what I do is for that. You know what I mean? I could have nine frustrating clients. You know what I mean? And then if I have that one like that and have that change their life around.

Lianne Shinton (16:34)

Yeah.

Michael (16:43)

It's all worth it.

Lianne Shinton (16:44)

Yeah, and I got to see Rosie. We were in our last meeting and she was on her place while you were doing a meeting with me. yeah, I could tell that she, you was very impactful for your life and, you know, just getting excited about the progress.

Michael (16:48)

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, she started to

follow me around like, hey, where are going? Are you leaving me? I'm like, as usual, she's like, just leave me alone. I'll sit in the corner. So those are the things that really make me know that I'm doing what I'm supposed to.

Lianne Shinton (17:10)

amazing.

Awesome, awesome. So you mentioned like with Rosie's parents, you go to the condo. Maybe I know that you work at a facility as well. And so it sounds like you go to the home facility. Tell me a little bit about your programs or about options.

Michael (17:33)

Yeah, so, ⁓

so I do a free consultation with everybody just so they get a chance to see how things work with me. ⁓ I get a chance to meet their dog, give him my two cents. And then, so my most popular program is I, I name it no limitations still from when I graduated, sit, mean, sit. And when it, before it was hit me and said it was no limitations. And, ⁓ so basically it's, you know, I start off a couple of sessions in the home.

build the routine there, know, first sessions like, you know, intermediate walking, teaching them not to walk ahead, you know, and then I give them a week, give them a, give them the schedule, routine to do. And then I come back and I teach them the place command and show them how to, you know, get that to work for them on your day-to-day lives, like while they're cooking and eating their own place, while they're relaxing their own place. And then you're given these breaks in between to congratulate them.

you know, guy used to analogy kindergarten, you know, the kids sitting there learning the ABCs and it's like, I can't wait to get out to the monkey bars. And then you give them that outlet. So it's not like they're just randomly like, Hey, I need a pension. I need a pension. You could kind of show them that, you do this. I'll give you that. And then once I create the routine inside the house, we start working outside. And that's where I meet them at the facility Hagen's pet resort. And I bring one of my dogs to add to the

distractions. So they know most of the commands already. Now we're putting them in and exposing them to challenging situations and starting to make the obedience more dependable. Right. And so I do that a couple times and then they come into group classes. And I do two at Hagens and I do two, one at a park here in Sarasota called Payne Park. In that one, you know, we're outside the fence.

We're in a real place. There's kids, there's ducks walking by, there's squirrel pro-fors going on. You know what mean? So, and like once during classes, just, they could come for as long as they want to. You know, I want to make sure that I'm not saying, hey, this is your last lesson. I know you've got a lot to go. You know, I let them take the pressure off of them by letting them come at their own pace.

Lianne Shinton (19:35)

Wow.

Nice. ⁓ it's just so good to have something structured that you can do with your dog and be around like-minded people. So that sounds like a great community you're building.

Michael (19:57)

I have one guy come for 12 years.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And then I do a two-week boarding train, and I only do two at a time because I do them at my home. When I first started out, I worked at a kennel, and I would show up every day, and I'd be there for several hours, pull the dogs out, train them. But I wasn't given a real home environment. So ⁓ after the two weeks, I do their privates, and then they have to come into group classes to continue the training.

Yeah.

Lianne Shinton (20:40)

Yeah, awesome, that's awesome. And I think that really would be reassuring to someone ⁓ if they're looking for a board and train that it's out of your house. It just feels really good.

Michael (20:52)

Yeah,

and part of the board and train is it's not over. I trained the dog to listen to me. It doesn't mean the dog's going to automatically listen to you. You've got to do the follow up for it to be successful.

Lianne Shinton (21:08)

Definitely, definitely. And your free consultation, could you talk more about that? ⁓ Did they bring the dog to you? Is it over the phone? What could they expect?

Michael (21:20)

Yes. Yeah,

they bring the dog to me and we're in a fenced in area. I got agility equipment there and stuff like that. And then it's at a kennel. like, you know, especially if I have a dog that has behavior problems, I could see right away when they get out in the parking lot, there's dogs being let out from the kennel, which is adjacent to my training area. I could see the reactivity, you know what I mean? Right off the bat, I'm seeing

what that dog's all about before we even sit down at the table and start discussing things. And I just let, know, I've kind of got some information from them from speaking to them on the phone, but now that I have them in front of me, I want to hear what, you know, what's been going on since you've gotten this dog, when did, you know, especially if it's aggression and stuff like that, where did this start? Where was the trigger? You know I mean? You know, did you adopt them too late? Like Rosie was a kennel dog for three years and

She was no socialization whatsoever. She was like Brooks from the Shawshank Redemption.

Lianne Shinton (22:23)

Yeah, yeah.

I'm still here.

Michael (22:26)

Sorry, yeah, I just

got an alert for a phone consultation at one.

Lianne Shinton (22:30)

Okay, are we good?

Michael (22:32)

Yeah, I'm going to text her and say, I might be a little late.

Okay.

Lianne Shinton (22:36)

Yeah, we can always edit this part out too, we will. So take your time.

Michael (22:40)

How much longer do you think we'll be?

Lianne Shinton (22:42)

20 minutes would be fine. That would give you time because it's at 1 o'clock, right? So it's 12 Yeah, I think you might be on time we'll get you out on time Yeah Okay. All right. So we're back and so yeah, I just wanted to explain to the listeners that you know You're in the middle of a podcast, but you took a minute to say hey, I just I have this phone consultation that just booked

Michael (22:49)

So I might be on time.

Okay, I'll just, all right, so I'll just hold it there.

Lianne Shinton (23:12)

and you really take care of your clients and their dogs. That really spoke to me.

Michael (23:18)

Yeah,

and the system that you set up for me has been working so well because now it's like I don't have to call and leave a message and then hopefully they call me back. They schedule it. We're going to talk and it's not that ping pong of phone calls, tag your it.

Lianne Shinton (23:44)

Yeah,

chicken, game of chicken. And yeah, that's so important to you and to me, it's that providing good customer service because that first initial time someone reaches out, if you take 24 hours to get back to them, they're going to remember that. And you you are just so amazing at providing customer service through the whole journey. The program name being no limitations. And some fellow is coming for 12 years, like

Michael (23:47)

Yeah.

Lianne Shinton (24:12)

you really take care of them from the very first moment they come in when they, know, okay, you guys are good. And then still that amazing customer service in those group classes. I love it.

Michael (24:13)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah,

on several occasions when I call them, they're like, wow, you're really on time. I would hope so. Like, you know what I mean? It's your time too.

Lianne Shinton (24:31)

Yeah,

awesome. But so many businesses aren't. So yeah, yeah, you're such a good resource for dog owners ⁓ locally. And ⁓ okay, let me look at my next question here. So I have, what's something you consistently see dog owners struggle with that you love helping them overcome?

Michael (24:56)

I think there's a couple parts of this like we mentioned before, and I won't beat the drum, but getting them to understand that they have a family member, but it's a different species, but technique. The last couple years, I've really focused on getting them to get their timing down. And I'm in Sarasota, so there's a retirement community that they're

Physical skills have diminished. So how do I get them? To to at least apply it to the dog in an efficient way so I do a lot of Before we the first lesson before we even work the dog out. I become the dog You know what I mean? I have them tell me what to do and like I'll grab the end of the leash. I'm right. All right, walk me and I'll jump in front of them and like like what do do now like you know, I

Lianne Shinton (25:44)

Yeah.

Michael (25:54)

And I started to realize like, uh, you know, my, the technique that we learned at, um, sit means sit, you know, it's the E-caller and it's pressure, right. And getting that rhythm down and, you know, I'm like, why is it so hard for people to get to tap a button and say a word at the same time? And then I was like, uh, maybe I've never done it before. You know, and then, you know, when you're trying to teach them the walking part of it.

And they just keep on following the dog, following the dog. And then it was like, maybe they've never been in a marching band and don't know what an about faces. Or, or, or, you know, had to play basketball and walk backwards to defend, you know what I mean? And it's something that you gotta kind of show them that this is part of the game and it's a skill that you have to practice. So your dog doesn't suffer your technique being confusing.

Lianne Shinton (26:39)

Yeah.

Wow, ⁓ such a powerful answer and it's making me think about competing in dog sports and how we get judged if like our feet move at the wrong time, we lose the whole exercise. So interesting that you're leaning into the technicalities, the movements.

And that is something we get judged for in dog sports as well. Like if I move my arm wrong, know, stuff like that. So it's interesting the correlation that you're talking about and we have to train for it. I've many times practiced. walk up to the line. I pretend to throw the toy. My dog isn't even in the picture, but I need to make sure I don't lose half a point because I moved wrong. Yeah. Yeah. It's very powerful information and it's really important people lean into that.

Michael (27:12)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Did something wrong. Yeah, absolutely.

Well, it goes back to, it took me 10 years to realize I was a people trainer, you know.

Lianne Shinton (27:45)

Yeah,

yeah. Just like guess if you're at the gym or you're playing guitar, you know, there's a technique to all of it and practicing on you practicing. Yeah, practicing on you is valuable because then they're not making that mistake, which is natural to make those mistakes, but they're not always.

Michael (27:52)

Yeah, exactly. Repetition, repetition, repetition.

Right, or getting

rid of the mistakes before they even start working with the dog. ⁓

Lianne Shinton (28:06)

you get the dog in the picture. Yeah,

great, great. ⁓ Awesome. So my next question is, what do you think sets a great training experience apart from the average? And I was also thinking this question could be like, what sets you apart from the average trainer? And I before you even say, I've already kind of covered one, and it's your amazing customer service and your passion for taking care of people.

Michael (28:34)

Yeah, I think it's like so there's a vet in the area that refers me and like, and like when they come and see me, they're like, yeah, he told me he says you're the nuts and bolts guy. Because I'm educating you, like, you know, I mean, I'm not saying I'll do this with your dog. Oh, you're not doing it right. Like, you know, I'm hands on, like, I'm showing you exactly what you need to do. So I think that's

where I stand out is because I'm taking the time with the human, because the dog's the easy part. They're waiting to be led. You know what mean? If I could get the owner to show them how to do that, then it makes the job that much easier.

Lianne Shinton (29:15)

And that's powerful too that this vet refers you. And so many people are visual learners. So they need to see it versus just being like talked at. Yeah.

Michael (29:25)

Yeah.

Yeah.

And like I've been compiling videos, uh, like I got those meta glasses. So now I can sit there and get POV on my workouts and send people, you know, videos of other dogs I'm doing, or send them the video of what I'm doing with their dogs so they could see, you know what I mean? So, you know, we're in this technical, you know, age of technology that now I could really start giving these people resources that will help them succeed.

Lianne Shinton (29:36)

Mm.

Outstanding. And my next question is, what feedback do you commonly hear, like most often from your happy clients, like some of their bigger takeaways at the facility, the going to the home, the human coaching? What do you think really makes you stand out to them?

Michael (30:16)

I think a lot of it is they see that I know a lot about the dogs. You know, and I can relay the information, like when I see the issues, the symptoms, whatever you want to call it, I can explain them how, where it started and how do you fix it. You know, the hardest part is really for some owners is changing the relationship.

because they're used to having them buy them because it's for them. You know, they want to pet the dog all the time, but they don't realize that you're becoming this 24 seven masseuse in their mind. You know what I mean? And they might start saying, hey, anybody comes near me, you're not taking my masseuse away. This is awesome. You know I mean? And sometimes that when I say people like you can't let them on the bed or on the couch for a while, you could just see their face go, whoa.

I'm like, I'm not saying forever. I'm just saying we got to balance this out a little bit. You know, the pendulum has been swinging his way the whole entire time. We got to swing it our way a little bit to kind of get into the middle.

Lianne Shinton (31:26)

Well said, very powerful. And I like that, you know, the end result, yeah, you're gonna go back to that, but with more balance. Love it. Now, if someone's out there and they're looking for a dog trainer, there's a lot of dog trainers that are social media trainers, and they aren't really putting their all into learning how to train the dogs. They're putting more into their videos and their content.

Michael (31:38)

And.

Yeah.

Lianne Shinton (31:56)

So for looking for advice, for someone looking for a dog trainer, what would be some advice to help them navigate that?

Michael (32:05)

⁓ Well, when you're talking to them.

that like I get a lot of phone conversations where they've talked to other trainers and they immediately say, you sound like you know what you're talking about. You know what I mean? So, and.

You know, like there's trainers that just strictly do board and train. And I get a lot of those clients to me because yeah, they've done the board and train, but they didn't do anything after the fact. And if you are searching for it and that's all they offer. Okay. That's fine. If that's your only option, but make sure they're going to give you the things you need after the board and train. You know what I mean? ⁓ you know, obviously look at the referrals, you know what I mean?

stuff like that, ⁓ do they bring a dog to the consultation?

Let me see your dog. Because if they're not bringing a dog to the consultation and showing you what they can do, you got to kind of show them, prove it in some form or fashion. You know what I mean?

Lianne Shinton (33:07)

Mm-hmm.

Yes, excellent advice.

Michael (33:09)

You know,

got people I've been doing in my area longer than 24 years, but that doesn't, yeah, you got experience, but is your experience doing it the right way?

You know?

Lianne Shinton (33:21)

Yes, yes, and that's good advice too to check the reviews as well. So my next question is, ⁓ what's one misconception dog owners often have before starting training?

Might be a tough one.

Michael (33:36)

⁓ that they're gonna be the one involved more than anything.

Lianne Shinton (33:40)

that the owner's going to be. ⁓ they don't realize how involved that. Yeah, yeah, yes.

Michael (33:42)

Yeah.

that they gotta be, you know what I mean?

And you like you mentioned it before, like they got jobs, got, you know, kids and, you know, you gotta find a way to show them, like even, you know, like I tell like my one program, like practice three to five times a day, 10, 15 minutes. They might get one or two, but I gotta say, hey, that one or two,

can go a long way, just try to fit it in there. Don't worry about 10, 15 minutes, do five. But if you keep it prevalent every day, it'll stick. you're only doing it five, 10 minutes every other day, you're not gaining anything, your dog's not gaining anything. You gotta build upon each session. So I think, you know, make sure they're setting the time to be successful with the training.

Lianne Shinton (34:40)

Yes, yes, great advice. Almost so it becomes a habit, becomes a lifestyle. Yeah.

Michael (34:45)

Habit. Habit.

That's the key, because they come to you and what's their biggest habit is the leash. That's the way they're controlling them. So getting them to like not use the leash so much, use their body, you got to get rid of their bad habits and create new ones. And that's hard to do when, like we were talking about the system, the AI thing, and like I used to be a techie.

Lianne Shinton (35:03)

Mm.

Michael (35:18)

I learned how to make music videos for bands and stuff like that. That was 10, 15 years ago. And now I'm learning something new and I'm like, what the f*** this?

Lianne Shinton (35:27)

You

is pretty cool making music videos for bands. And you play lead guitar?

Michael (35:33)

No, just play around. I just play to have fun. Like a lot of my friends are musicians, so if we're hanging out, we'll pull them out and do a little jam session, which is just, that's all I need is that. Participate a little bit.

Lianne Shinton (35:48)

If,

and then just to get it off the dogs for a second, if just ask some kind of lightning round fun questions. If you could be in any band, what band would that be?

Michael (35:58)

Hmm.

Hmm. Well, my favorite band is Candlebox, so I would have to say that, but like,

like, like, like, I like really hard rock too. And there's a band called Seven Doss and they're, they're the metal you can dance to. And if you ever see them live, you're just like, my God. And they're just like, all of them are just like moving around. And like, I think that would be a cool band to play in because it's just so much energy.

Lianne Shinton (36:17)

Okay.

that's fun. Yeah, that sounds fun.

Michael (36:35)

Can boxes like that

too, but.

Lianne Shinton (36:37)

That sounds super fun. All right, so back to the dogs. That was quite interesting though. What exciting things are coming up in your business? What are you working on?

Michael (36:41)

Okay.

Working on my AI conversion system. And I'm starting to get, like we were talking earlier, like getting a media system. So like, you know, that first lesson I'm dealing with clients and like, I could tell when I leave, they're just like, they just got bombarded.

Lianne Shinton (36:52)

Hahaha.

It's a brain dump. Yeah.

Michael (37:16)

so much information. So I want to start creating a video, videos that for every lesson that they could fall back on and just add another wrinkle, you know, so to speak to, to making sure they could stay consistent with it because, you know, a lot of times I'll see them week to week and I'm like, Hey, did you work on this? And you're like, no, we forgot about that.

Lianne Shinton (37:42)

Mm-hmm.

Michael (37:43)

You know what mean? And it's not a big deal, but you know, it'd be so much better if I get him everything they possibly can to be successful. You know what I mean?

Lianne Shinton (37:54)

Definitely, that's very powerful. And I try to study the way that people learn and there's definitely science behind virtual training and in-person training. So I think that's wonderful that you're adding that because it's gonna help them retain the information so much better.

Michael (38:13)

Yeah, and like Robin McFarland, when I went to one of her workshops, she broke down like the four quadrant personalities and how to address each one. You know, learning that like, okay, I know who this person is. This is how I'm going to help them. You know, it's not this cookie cutter thing where you say the same thing to every person. You got to sit there and tap into what makes them tick.

Lianne Shinton (38:37)

Excellent. So just to shift a little bit to your personal dogs, could you share a little bit about more about your own dogs, maybe starting with Missy?

Michael (38:50)

All right, so Missy, got from, what's that guy's name on New York?

Lianne Shinton (38:56)

a wall-ead. Yeah.

Michael (38:58)

Wally so

missy was narrows. Pick of the letter Fred got you know picture and then Senator Wally and. When I. When I started working with all you guys I had that I had a German Shepherd named Neo and he was he was on point but when I got around everybody that had a mouth a lot made him look like he was kind of slow, you know I mean and so I started looking for a mouth law.

Lianne Shinton (39:02)

⁓

Aww.

Michael (39:27)

And everybody said, go to Waleed. And he was sending me videos of males. he's like, are you interested in a female? I'm like, what do you got? He's like, well, I have a Nero pup. And I had met Nero a couple of times. And I was like, I don't know, man. I'm five years into this. I don't know if I can handle a dog like Nero. And he was like, he's like, she's nothing like him. She's actually really good. He's like, I'll give her to you if you let me get a litter out of her. And I'm like, OK.

So shipped her from New York and that dog became one in a million. Like she just knew what I was doing. You know, like, like I was talking about it yesterday with a guy and his dog was reactive on the leash. And I would, once I learned how to read the dogs properly, if I had a dog that I knew was just bluffing, I would free to missy and she'd walk out into the field and I'd

Lianne Shinton (40:01)

Yeah.

Michael (40:25)

say that owners I'm like go and take the leash off and they're like what I'm like go and take the leash off watch and the dog as soon as the leash came off dog ⁓ and then my dog would watch come message we watch him come and she just turned her head and go like this and the dog go

Lianne Shinton (40:43)

You

Michael (40:43)

and didn't know what to do. And then she would just sit there and stay still and let them sniff them. And then she'd slowly turn around and sniff them and they might freak out. She's like, settle down, settle down. Good. And then next thing you know, she's like in front of them doing her dance, like, come on, let's go. And the dog would be like, okay. And then I'm watching the owners like, what just happened? And she just, and I learned so much from her, like her boy language and all that stuff. And

Lianne Shinton (40:53)

Wow.

Mm-hmm.

Michael (41:12)

She passed in 2021 at 15. So, you know, if they can only last as long as us, right? So I got Leda who is a nine and a half. She's also a Belgium. I got her from Ivan, you know, paid 2,500 bucks and like he has a system where he picks the dog for you, you tell him what you want. And I was like, well, I gave him the trace of Missy. So she's...

Lianne Shinton (41:26)

wow.

Michael (41:40)

dog indifferent. So what I mean by that is she looks at dogs. She's like, yeah, you don't have those things called thumbs. So you can't throw this for me. Get out of my face. Where's a human at? You know what I mean? So, so I don't have a dog that interacts with dogs like Missy did. So now I have, um, Kuma, who's a 15 month old male Malinois. And he, as soon as I met him, I saw how, how goofy he was and like,

Lianne Shinton (41:50)

Yep.

Michael (42:09)

I have a great day here that is has issues with dogs and as soon as I brought him out, he was like, come on, come on. And she's like, okay. So now I got another dog that like can get these dogs out of their shell and kind of be goofy and not serious. And that's my pack now.

Lianne Shinton (42:30)

That's nice. I totally get that because I have Flirty and she's helped me raise so many of my clients' where they become like family and she helps train them. I love that and not many trainers have that type of dog. It's a gift to us and it's a gift to our clients.

Michael (42:44)

Yeah. Yeah.

Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. I used to have a, remember Oliver the Papillon that I would have on my shoulder?

Lianne Shinton (42:50)

Awesome.

Yes.

Michael (42:55)

Yeah, I had a female for a while and she passed away shortly after Missy did. And she was kind of, Oliver was really cool. ⁓ Dora was like, Lita. She's like.

Just throw the ball, throw the ball, I don't care.

Lianne Shinton (43:15)

That's cute.

Michael (43:16)

So now

I'm just like, I was sticking to one dog for a while. And then I was just like, I really need to get another dog that has that be able to be social and kind of want to play and not, you know, like a great thing would start protesting a little bit and he'd back off. He's like, all right, chill.

Lianne Shinton (43:35)

So.

Michael (43:38)

And he

kept on going up to her and next thing you know she stopped doing it and was like starting to play with him.

Lianne Shinton (43:43)

That's awesome. That's awesome. are you so you mentioned Papillon, you definitely love Malinois. What's your favorite breed outside of a Malinois? Because I'm sure it's probably a Malinois.

Michael (43:55)

Definitely like like I love the Malawah like I love going retrievers. I like those personalities. You know the sweet personalities. Little dogs. I like the Papayans the Palmaranians because they got that spunk to them. You know I mean they're like like when I met Oliver I was like you're messy in a five pound body. You know I mean, real athletic was like I'll do it.

Lianne Shinton (44:00)

Mm.

Ugh, wow. Yeah.

Michael (44:22)

Tell me what to do, I'll do it.

Lianne Shinton (44:24)

Awesome. And just one last question, because I know you've got a client to get to. If you weren't, you mentioned bartending and then into dog training, which has become your lifelong career. If by chance you weren't dog training, you know, had a totally different life, what do think you'd be doing?

Michael (44:29)

Yeah.

I've probably something in music. ⁓ Like when I was going through that burnout phase and I was doing those music videos, I was actually going to pursue that as a career and kind of wean the dog training out. then I out I was going to have a baby. kind of I was like, stick to the dog training, just figure out how to make this work.

Lianne Shinton (44:45)

⁓ yeah, that makes sense.

Michael (45:12)

And, you know, that's when I told you about the burnout and the four agreements thing that we were talking about. And it kind of put things in the perspective for me, you know.

Lianne Shinton (45:22)

Yeah.

And I appreciate you suggesting that book. started reading it. It's outstanding. And I'm going to have you on my podcast again so that we can talk about burnout, which, you know, it's not just dog training. It's the running the business part. Like you've got a lot on your shoulders to take care of a lot of clients and your business. So totally get that. And I'm really excited to have you on the podcast to discuss that more detailed how you overcame it.

Michael (45:38)

Boom.

Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely. I'm excited. Like I told you, I've been thinking about that, doing it for something, know, ICT or something like that. But ⁓ since you're looking for these things, let's do it with you first, you know.

Lianne Shinton (46:01)

Yeah, that would be amazing because this is a major.

Michael (46:03)

I think it will

be really helpful for lot of trainers out there.

Lianne Shinton (46:07)

Definitely, definitely awesome. Well, ⁓ I want to let you get to that next client. Our conversation has been super fun. And is there anything else you'd like to add today?

Michael (46:18)

⁓ Like, ⁓ you when you're looking for a dog, you know, make sure that you're not looking for looks and making sure that you explore ⁓ what the dog is going to require, not just grooming and stuff like that, but you know, are they, how trainable are they? Are they a one person type of dog or are they a family dog?

You've got to take those things into consideration when you're looking for a dog.

Lianne Shinton (46:51)

Kind of like what you said when you Ivan, you were looking for a dog, you provided him with like a checklist of qualities that you were looking for, which stemmed from Missy. ⁓ So that's such good advice, like have a checklist and be picky. Yeah.

Michael (47:10)

Yeah,

don't go for the sad face, you know, right away. And like if you're looking for rescues, watch out for the one that's like kind of shy because those are the ones that they're very sweet, but they could turn if you don't, you know, I'm not saying don't get them because those dogs need homes too, but be be aware of that.

Lianne Shinton (47:13)

Yeah.

Michael (47:38)

feel bad for them when you bring them home could set up a lot of behavior problems down the road.

Lianne Shinton (47:44)

Yeah, so we get them. Yeah, and then we don't add the structure and the routine, which everybody needs structure and routine. And you're just setting the poor thing up to fail. So yeah, good advice. Awesome. Well, thank you so much, Mike. maybe just, yeah, thanks for joining me. Maybe share your website URL so people can look you up.

Michael (47:45)

because you feel sorry for them.

Exactly.

Yeah.

Thanks for having me.

Yeah, it's www.k9coachfl.com.

Lianne Shinton (48:15)

Awesome. And we'll put the link and your socials in the comments as well. And yeah, thank you for joining me, Mike. And thank you everyone for listening. Again, I'm Leanne Shinton from Automation Docs and have a terrific day.

Michael (48:20)

Awesome.

Bye guys, thank you again.

Lianne Shinton (48:32)

Thank you.

Okay, this is where it doesn't stop. This happened to me last time. think I have to reload. So last time we just, yeah, let me just make sure it looks like it's all uploaded. So we should be good. I just can't stop recording. So we'll edit this part out, but yeah, we should be great. So we'll be working on this. It'll probably go live. Does next Thursday work for you if it goes live?

Michael (48:39)

So that good?

Next Thursday for what?

Lianne Shinton (49:00)

Yeah, we would just edit it and it'll go live next Thursday. Yeah, so usually a week or two and my VA Marvin may reach out ⁓ or if you want to just send me a picture that we could use for the thumbnail, that would be terrific. And we'll find your socials.

Michael (49:03)

Okay, yeah, whenever you guys are ready.

Like a picture of me or?

Lianne Shinton (49:19)

Yeah, picture you just for the thumbnail. it's like a, you know, when you look at a video and has like some words on it and a picture of who's in the video.

So just find something.

Michael (49:31)

Okay, I'll see

if I can get out. I think I can get my daughter on to a cap cut or something.

Lianne Shinton (49:36)

Yeah, yeah, whatever. I can look on your Facebook too and see if there's something there. Yeah, for sure. No worries. No worries, no worries. Okay, we'll let you get to your phone call. All right, we'll see you next time. Bye.

Michael (49:40)

Yeah, if you can. Give me one less thing I have to figure out.

All right, awesome. Thank you so much. All

right, bye.