Lianne Shinton (00:00)

Hey everybody and welcome. I'm Lianne Shinton from Automation Dogs and welcome to my podcast. Today I have the pleasure of interviewing Eric Stanbro. Welcome, Eric.

Eric Stanbro (00:09)

Hey, thanks for having me on.

Lianne Shinton (00:11)

Great to have you. I am really excited to talk with you about your book that's been out for about a year and a half on one of my favorite topics, the e-collar. And also hear about some some cool stuff that you've been doing on the business side with Vaness K9 Academy and Ridgeside K9 Academy. And then I see in the background you've got Working Dogs Radio too. So awesome. Welcome.

Eric Stanbro (00:34)

Mm. Yeah, we've been doing the

working dog radio show for eight and a half years now. it's been we I think in the working dog side of things anyways, we were the first and I think we're coming up on about four million downloads from our episodes. We've we've done pretty well. It's been nice, it's been a lot of fun. I get to meet people, get to learn stuff. my co host Ted has changed some of his training style based on guests that we've had on the show. So it's always really cool to talk to people and learn stuff and

It's neat. I like it.

Lianne Shinton (01:05)

Yeah, I love it too. The podcast for me, my favorite part is that transfer of knowledge and all of the things

Eric Stanbro (01:12)

Mm-hmm.

Lianne Shinton (01:12)

that I'm picking up and evolving. so yeah, that is cool. And that was something I guess I wanted to ask you in writing a book. It's it's kind of concrete. And then I'm sure you've evolved since then. but

Eric Stanbro (01:25)

yeah.

Lianne Shinton (01:25)

that's where the podcasts and the seminars are great for you to continue to update people.

Eric Stanbro (01:32)

Yeah, you know, so I what I did was I people a couple of people had told me, you know, I thought I should write a book or whatever. And, you know, that sounds daunting. Like I I'm like, I I don't know what to do, where to start. Luckily, one of our pet dog clients is a author and a book editor herself. And so I had a resource. I talked to her. She ended up editing the book for me and helping me out and everything. And what I did was I took my seminars. I traveled around the country teaching the topic of e-collar and

If you I always tell people if at my seminars, if you want my PowerPoint, I'll send it to you. It's great. Like you can use it. I you can change my name, put your name on it, teach it, whatever you want. However, my my PowerPoint is really just bullet points to keep me on track of where I'm at. So you might get it and look at it and go, The heck is he talking about here? Like I don't even know what that that means. It's just a signal for me. So what I did was I took my seminar.

And I wrote it in the book exactly what I talk about at the seminar, how I do everything, how I do the pet training, everything all at one into the book. And it's only basically like 67 pages. I tell everybody I'm a Neanderthal and I wrote it for other cavemen like me. And there's not a lot of pictures, unfortunately. Sorry guys, there's a few, but not a ton. but the crazy thing is, their stuff I'm doing now from in the last six months.

at

training that I've changed and added to my training. That's not even in the book. So I'm teaching it at the seminars. I'm teaching to the pet clients. So I'm I may have to do a second edition to that.

Lianne Shinton (03:07)

Yeah, yeah, that's what I've always worried about with the book, but I admire you that you've been able to put together this book and I guess all of just the places pieces fell into place for you with with your client being a book editor. Cause I always find when I sit down with pencil and paper, I immediately it's like writer's block. And I love how you were like, I'm gonna lean into my PowerPoint and use that as, you know.

help to ro to get this thing on paper for you. So that's really powerful.

Eric Stanbro (03:42)

Yeah, the thing is I think what sticks a lot of authors in the beginning is I gotta come up with a table of contents and and A B w you know, chapter one, two, three. I already had that. I have

the way my I just use my PowerPoint in order of the way I did it. And I I you know added some things, switched some things around, but it's if you come to if you would read my book and then come to my seminar, you'd be like, He talks exactly verbiage, exactly like in the book, 'cause that's what I did. I've done it so many times.

you know, I do two or three of those seminars a month and all over the United States and I got it down, you know. And

so I got I got lucky. I just got lucky there because I I'll be if I had to just write the concept of e collar and the tone avoidance and everything I talk about in there, I'd be like, I don't know how to put this in order. I don't know how to do it. But I got I just I got lucky. It took me once I started writing, it only took me about two weeks.

Lianne Shinton (04:37)

powerful. there was one fella I was listening to and he wrote a book and he has dyslexia and he actually spoke the book and he he

Eric Stanbro (04:46)

Nice.

Lianne Shinton (04:47)

created it as an audio book and and that's how it you know became because we we get stuck and I love that you were

Eric Stanbro (04:55)

Yeah.

Lianne Shinton (04:56)

able to pull from that PowerPoint to create this thing.

Eric Stanbro (04:59)

A lot of people want me to do a audio book and I probably will.

Lianne Shinton (05:02)

Yes.

Eric Stanbro (05:03)

See, here's the thing. I in in my everyday life and in my my conferences, and if you've listened to me on the show and if you've listened to me in any other shows, I do have a tendency to swear. But in the book, there's no swear words. And

Lianne Shinton (05:17)

Mm.

Eric Stanbro (05:19)

people are like, I can't wait for you to read it and throw in F bombs. The thing is though, on Amazon, you cannot deviate from the from the written word.

You can add inflection or maybe some emotion, you know, so emphasize some things, but you can't change the words or they'll kick it out. So I'm gonna do the audiobook just because there is a market for a lot of people I'm finding out. But man, everybody I talked to said it's the biggest pain in the butt. And I know myself right now, I'll have a whole blooper reel of me, dang it, you know, when I when I misstep on a word or whatever.

Because

each chapter you have to create file for each one and you put it in order and when you upload it all has to be in this concentric order and I'm like, it's gonna take me forever. I just need to do it. I was gonna do it over the winter and I should have, but I didn't.

Lianne Shinton (06:07)

Yeah, because you you've you've got the great like microphone and such a great speaking voice. So I

Eric Stanbro (06:12)

Yeah. thank you.

Lianne Shinton (06:14)

I think that'll be something that I know I would gravitate to because that's all I do is listen to audiobooks. I haven't read a book in forever, but I think yeah,

Eric Stanbro (06:21)

Mm. That's what people tell me. Yeah.

Lianne Shinton (06:26)

yeah, they're awesome. but the the one thing that I find for me is I'll read I'll listen to an audiobook, but then

I'm listening to the next one after that and the next one after that instead of like there's this one book I listen to every year. And that way I really implement it. And I think that's a piece of advice I was given is like maybe listen to this book like every three months so that you can really start to practice what you're learning.

Eric Stanbro (06:52)

Yeah. Nice. there's a dog trainer named Larry Crone who wrote a a E collar manual and I used it years ago and we trained very similar and and his book I I probably read that thing ten times to see if I was missing something,

Lianne Shinton (07:07)

Yeah.

Eric Stanbro (07:08)

you know.

Lianne Shinton (07:09)

Yeah, that's that's great information. I know Larry. He's great. I've had him on the podcast as well. Yeah.

Eric Stanbro (07:12)

Hm. sweet. Nice. I'll have to go back and listen.

Lianne Shinton (07:16)

Yeah. Actually, when I started my podcast, it was a lot of kind of boring questions. And one day I started leaning into like icebreakers. And it was right around the time where I was having Larry on. And a couple of these like

dog trainers that have spoken on a lot of podcasts like yourself and they're like, please make it fun for me. And I'm like, all right, challenge accepted. So Eric, if you're okay with it,

Eric Stanbro (07:42)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Lianne Shinton (07:44)

I'm gonna ask you some fun questions today.

Eric Stanbro (07:47)

It'll be great. Yes, I like it.

Lianne Shinton (07:49)

All right, I'm gonna hit you with some that I have asked many. if Jurassic Park were a real park, a real place with real dinosaurs, would you go?

Eric Stanbro (08:01)

I think so. You know, I last year in July. Now granted it's not the same, but last year in July my wife and my youngest daughter and I went to Africa on safaris and we went to two different places and these aren't like fenced in parks where they just you know, these were out in the in out in Africa, like there was sixty five million acres so that you could see whatever. And we're in

those trucks and I have a video of a lion walking right past me, right underneath me. And I'm telling you, I was pretty pretty nervous, but I looked at the guide and he wasn't. And I was like, I was gonna take my cues off of that dude. So granted it wouldn't be the same, but I think a a lion and a velociraptor could probably do pretty equal damage.

Lianne Shinton (08:50)

Mm, mm. Wow, that's

Eric Stanbro (08:52)

Mm-hmm.

Lianne Shinton (08:52)

awesome. What a trip. My

my mom

Eric Stanbro (08:55)

it's amazing. Unbelievable.

Lianne Shinton (08:56)

my mom's a solo traveler, travels all over. She did she did Africa. She got robbed at gunpoint in Africa. She's such a crazy badass. So

Eric Stanbro (09:03)

Did she really? Where at?

Lianne Shinton (09:07)

I don't know. One of the trucks that she was on, like you described, and they boarded and

Eric Stanbro (09:11)

Yeah. man.

Lianne Shinton (09:13)

yeah, so they they love but she's she's pretty careful and keeps all her like

you know, stuff protected, but yeah, yeah,

Eric Stanbro (09:20)

Yeah.

Lianne Shinton (09:21)

yeah. that's cool. So if Jurassic Park were a real place, you would go.

Eric Stanbro (09:26)

I'd go, I think so, yeah.

Lianne Shinton (09:27)

Yeah, me too, me too. I know we've seen the movie, we all know what happens, but always curious.

Eric Stanbro (09:32)

Mm-hmm. If

it was a real park, I think over time the dinosaurs would be like the lions and they just kind of ignore the humans.

Lianne Shinton (09:41)

Yeah.

Eric Stanbro (09:41)

That's what I'm hoping for. So fingers crossed.

Lianne Shinton (09:43)

Yeah, like the

All right. So I know that i in your past life you're were a police officer. I assume you're retired from that now. So thank you for your service.

Eric Stanbro (09:55)

Yep. Yeah, I retired in November

of twenty eighteen.

Lianne Shinton (10:00)

And my next question, it's kind of fun. If money were no object, what would your dream job be?

Eric Stanbro (10:12)

I think my dream job, honestly, and this goes all the way back to my childhood would be a professional baseball player.

Lianne Shinton (10:18)

Mm, cool.

Eric Stanbro (10:19)

It just seems like a pretty good life, dude. Like all summer long, lots of games. You you know, they give you some time off, but you're chilling with the dudes and you're in watching baseball.

Lianne Shinton (10:32)

Yeah.

Eric Stanbro (10:33)

not a ton of injuries, you know. I just always thought it would be amazing to do that. so yeah, I think I would go with that.

Lianne Shinton (10:41)

I couldn't stand standing out in the sun for that long. I'm sure there'd be other limitations for me not being a professional baseball player, but it gets hot out there. Yeah, that

Eric Stanbro (10:47)

Yeah. I think there's a lot of night games though. I would be like, hey, can I play the night games only?

Lianne Shinton (10:54)

that's cool. I love baseball. I'm Canadian originally, so we're just born loving hockey and baseball. And I went to a game the other day, saw the Royals actually beat the Phillies, which was cool.

Eric Stanbro (11:05)

Yeah.

Nice.

Lianne Shinton (11:05)

And saw

a fella get inducted into the Hall of Fame while I was there too. So that was quite a day.

Eric Stanbro (11:11)

that's cool.

Lianne Shinton (11:12)

Yeah.

Eric Stanbro (11:13)

The c calling yourself Canadian originally is an interesting way of putting that. You go Canadian originally.

Lianne Shinton (11:17)

Yeah, yeah. I

Eric Stanbro (11:20)

Well, what are you now?

Lianne Shinton (11:21)

I'm an American now and man,

Eric Stanbro (11:23)

Yeah.

Lianne Shinton (11:23)

yeah, I love it here. I love it here.

Eric Stanbro (11:26)

Good. But

we love having you.

Lianne Shinton (11:28)

Yeah, it's great. so just to touch on e-collar without conflict for pets and working dog a little bit. we've talked a little bit about the book. There was something that was powerful that I just wanted to kind of dig into a little bit. so you talk about the tone, and I think it's like the the dopamine spike that a dog could have if they're able to avoid the tone.

I I

Eric Stanbro (11:59)

Yeah, so it's a marker,

you know. We I'm sure you've talked about markers on here a lot. I know you everybody uses them. That's a pet trainer that listens to this. We use yes as the as the positive marker. And we use you know, you can use clicker and things like that. And studies have shown that the dopamine dump is when the anticipation of the reward is coming. So the anticipation is more value. That's why the marker is more value.

And we use tone as a negative marker, which is a warning to the dog that the environment or his behavior is about to get him corrected. And we find that the tone has more value than the stem. so the anticipation of the correction is where the money is. And ha saying no, followed by a correction is also a negative marker and it it's pretty powerful and it works. The reason why I don't like using it and I like using tone because

The dog has only himself to blame if he does get corrected. If I say no, then correct him. He knows. He knows I did that. He has me to fight against. He has me to to make him nervous. He has me to worry about. But if the tone, you've you'll find if you teach tone avoidance where that you warn the dog with tone, they never even turn and look at you. But they just walk away from the item. But if I'm saying no and then doing it, they'll look at me.

And then they're only gonna do it when I'm in the room. If I leave

Lianne Shinton (13:31)

Mm.

Eric Stanbro (13:31)

the room, I'm not gonna eat that pair of underpants out of the laundry basket because that is hot. Like I got myself in trouble. Right. And then my relationship is always good. So yeah, we find that the I tell a story in the book about a dog named Cooper, Cooper A Corgi, who would go insane in the back of his owner's truck on the way to a certain park.

And he would drive on that road to that park and the dog knew what was up. And he would just get jacked up and start barking everything because he had a little true aggression in him. He would be excited, excited, excited, aggressive. Because real aggression, I think, is some of those dogs are kind of crazy, like nuts. Cooper was like that. And we could go up in stem and he would get worse. But when you hit tone, he would stop and drop. So the warning of what I was just doing to him.

has more value than the correction itself. and now I is an analogy I'm using now that's not in the book that the worst place on earth for you to go is the BMV. It's just it's horrible. You know you're gonna go there. You can't stand anybody in the you smell, the person behind the counter is mean. You can tell she hates to be there. This guy, what is wrong with this dude? Or what is he doing? Like I can't stand being there and I know I'm gonna drop, you know, a hundred bucks. But when my number is next,

on

the screen, all of a sudden I'm like, yeah, heck, I'm I'm getting out of here. I I don't care that I'm about to pay a hundred bucks, but I'm next in line. And I'm gonna leave. leave all this stuff, leave this horrible place. So my attitude kind of changes when I know that I'm next. It's just like being next for a roller coaster. When you're three people back, you're just talking to your buddies, having a good time. When you're next, man, you're getting, you're jumping, getting jacked up, ready to go. It's

Anticipation is where the money is and and dogs are very much the same.

Lianne Shinton (15:28)

Agreed, agreed. When I was reading about that, the thing that stood out to me was some uncomfortable things that maybe happen in dog training or in business that I'm like, I'm gonna lean into that and I'm gonna try and solve it and be solution oriented. And then coming out from it, it's like that dopamine spike. Like I I

changed the way I can handle something, I can solve something instead of just sticking my head in the sand and just take the punishment. Maybe it's I handled a dog differently where you know the dog was kind of scary and I was able to get the dog out and everything went great and everything nobody died. And I'm like, okay, I

Eric Stanbro (16:14)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Lianne Shinton (16:15)

learned something from that. Or maybe it's a business where someone reaches out and they're not happy because their dog's not listening.

home and you did a board and train or whatnot, and you know it's like, they're mean texting me. I'm gonna make that phone call and overcome this, do the right thing, fix it. And now I I I'm growing from that education. So that's kind of what I felt like from a human perspective.

Eric Stanbro (16:41)

Mm-hmm. Yeah. When you're so if you think about it in your business, you say there's a problem you have and you you you you haven't addressed it. You need to address it. If you start, when you start all of a sudden you're like, All right, I feel good. Like I

Lianne Shinton (16:57)

Yes.

Eric Stanbro (16:57)

I I know I know a solution's coming. Like you're really like I'm I'm really struggling to find employees. Like I need, I need Kenneltechs, but we're busy, we're working, I need people, I need people. Well, I'm not gonna just produce them out of a hat.

Right. But so then maybe I I get on indeed. How do I even do this? I get on Indeed, for example, and I I make a an ad, which isn't hard. I thought it was hard, but it isn't hard. Now h send. Now it's out there. Okay, now I feel good. Something's gonna happen now. Right. My problem that I have, I'm working towards getting rid of that or get you know, but if you just

Lianne Shinton (17:35)

Yes.

Eric Stanbro (17:36)

avoid it and you don't do it ever, you don't you

Lianne Shinton (17:39)

You're in trouble.

Eric Stanbro (17:40)

don't get that that

feeling of accomplishment and especially when if you're trying to grow or there's something like that. But also making the hard phone call like you were just talking about. You know, sometime you make a phone hard phone call and and then the and you're nervous and then the people are really understanding and you're like, that was pretty cool. Like we're we're we're working together for a solution here, whatever that may be.

Lianne Shinton (18:05)

Yeah, that's that's what I was thinking when I was, you know, putting an analogy to that concept of some of those

Eric Stanbro (18:12)

Mm-hmm.

Lianne Shinton (18:13)

negative experience I've had in my life where I'm like I leaned into it and it persevered and I felt really darn good about it afterwards. So I could see where for a dog they hear the tone and then they can avoid it. That would be very

Eric Stanbro (18:28)

Yeah. And I

Lianne Shinton (18:29)

powerful.

Eric Stanbro (18:30)

if everything is made crystal clear to the dog, he knows yes, no, black, white, always, never. If you do have to correct him and he knows it's you, so like say with a leash, there's no way he doesn't know that you did that, the dog is like that's fair. Yeah, that's you did say I'm not allowed to go in the trash can, but I'm a dog and I tried to go in the trash can anyways. And maybe you had to say no 'cause you didn't have the remote or or whatever.

That was a neck, you know, it was still a correction. They don't like it. They don't love it, but it's fair because things are made clear to the dog. So that's kind of where that analogy and why tone works, because now you know I'm not allowed to touch the counter. Right? The counter is hot. If I touch it, I'm gonna get myself in trouble. Let me try it. And they get tone, they ignore it and they get corrected, and they're like, damn it, I shouldn't have tried it.

Man, like I feel bad. You know, they're they're like, I feel bad for myself. Like I shouldn't have done that. And dogs were just playing on their narcissism with that. You know, they wanna everything's about themselves. They're thinking about themselves. They make you happy to get something from you. And when you play on that, they're like, Well, nope, I can avoid that. I can just live this sweet life laying on plays, chilling out, having a good time. I lay here, I don't have to.

Worry about the Amazon driver who's obviously a sailor killer. He's hit her kill us all. why

Lianne Shinton (19:57)

Mm-hmm.

Eric Stanbro (19:58)

is he here on a Sunday? They don't work Sundays, but apparently they do now on Sunday. Why is he here? And worried about stuff and he's gonna go bark at the window, beep, and walks away. He's like, Nah, I ain't gotta do that. They gotta worry about that. I can just stay away. I'll just go over here and and my buddy here will feed me.

Lianne Shinton (20:15)

Love it. Yes. Solution oriented. I love it.

Eric Stanbro (20:18)

Mm-hmm.

Lianne Shinton (20:20)

so just out of curiosity, do you remember what your first e collar was?

Eric Stanbro (20:25)

Dog tra. so the first e-collar I ever used was at the police department and we had the e-collar. We had one e collar. And

Lianne Shinton (20:35)

Ha ha ha ha.

Eric Stanbro (20:37)

and they're like, go, you know, we had nine dogs, and then we had schools full of dogs, and they're like, Go get the e collar out. And and I always joked that that thing was like gas powered and you had to choke, you know, pull start and all this other because it was so old and sometimes it was dead.

You

know, it just sat in a drawer and we only ever used it for the most incorrigible dogs. And so yeah, it was a dog tra old school nineteen hundred S, one of their, you know, original night that I'm so I got in the I got in the unit in five. That dog that collar was probably from two thousand, I would say. Ninety nine, two thousand. It was an old one.

Lianne Shinton (21:15)

Okay.

Mine was a Tritronics Beagler and I had no

Eric Stanbro (21:21)

Nice.

Lianne Shinton (21:22)

idea that it had range issues until later when I really learned

Eric Stanbro (21:25)

Mm-hmm.

Lianne Shinton (21:26)

how to use an e-collar. But that was fun. so the the other things we learned. Do you remember the moment where you figured out that an e collar was a really powerful tool and you were just like, this thing's awesome.

Eric Stanbro (21:42)

That's a that's an amazing question because my evolution with the e-collar was not awesome. Like I just was taught incorrectly, you know? So like in the police world, say we have a 10, 12 week class, and at the end we have a state certification or a national certification to do. Every certification that I know of except for one has a verbal out on the bitework. And we were just like, hey, shouldn't we be working on the out?

And they're like, no, we'll just use the e-collar towards the end. It'll be good. And it and it worked, you know, on some dogs. But they would just turn it up and crank it. Well, when I took over as the trainer, I did the same thing. I was like, my ego, I'm building up killers. I ain't worrying about no stupid out. We'll get the out with the e-collar at the end. And then I put it on the dog and on the out and because he won't out. And I turn it up and those collars go to 127. And I'm rolling up. I thought I could roll up until he would pop off. And then he doesn't.

And it made it worse. And then I was like, no, I I may have done that wrong. And what I did was I created dogs that learn to hold on and scream and just if I just eat this, and that's what happens. So it would work on some dogs and it wouldn't work on some dogs. And then I was like, Well, this dog is just so badass that he can't, you know, even the e-collar is not gonna work on him. Well, of course, if you're not doing it right. So think about this. I got in.

In 05, I was the head trainer till November of 2018. Trained hundreds and hundreds of dogs, some on the e-collar, some not on the e-collar. it's when I took when I started doing pet training, started pet training right before I retired, and I read Larry's book. And then I was like,

my gosh. I was thinking about all those dogs that I could have put done, layered it up right. Cause we didn't layer anything with that e-collar. We didn't, we just put it on and whap. You know. So it was pet training I started in in 2018. I really, really got into it in 2019 when I retired, full time like focusing on that and the working dogs on the side. And then it was when I realized what an easy tool it is.

Like how why am I why am I in the nineties when I should be in the nines? You know, I could I'm working this dog on an eight, you know, out of a hundred and twenty seven. And then, so that's when that really started, when I started real it it just had to be taught the right way.

Lianne Shinton (24:24)

Yeah, I had I had a bit of a I guess a better journey right into the e collar. At first Yeah,

Eric Stanbro (24:29)

Of course. Most people did.

Lianne Shinton (24:32)

yeah. At first it was like, I don't know, this is maybe how you use it just for off leash stuff. but then very quickly once I saw it used in a way that

This thing is awesome. So yeah, e-caller junkie.

Eric Stanbro (24:51)

Yeah,

you learned it correctly early. I did not.

Lianne Shinton (24:54)

Yeah, I mean I evolved a lot and then went on to like Mondio Ring and things like that where you know you really gotta get into markers and stuff to be able to fade it out, fade all my tools out and do a forty five minute routine without equipment on my dog who is kind of a crazy idiot. So

that

Eric Stanbro (25:12)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Lianne Shinton (25:13)

taught me a lot.

Eric Stanbro (25:14)

I I bought and sold two Mondio Ring dogs to police station, one in Aruba, who just retired. The dog's name was notorious. He was sold because he would bark in between all the events, walking in between all the events, and he would bark nonstop. And the and the lady who owned him goes, I just I feel bad kicking this dog's butt all the time, you know, for barking, but she was losing, right?

And then the other one was a dog that was bleeding points on his out and he's up in he might be retired now. He's in Saginaw, Michigan. He was fantastic police dog. But he wasn't gonna podium because he's bleeding points on in the out.

Lianne Shinton (25:53)

Yeah, yeah, that's a that's an important piece.

Eric Stanbro (25:55)

Mm-hmm.

Lianne Shinton (25:58)

Well, I want to shift a bit into some fun questions to help dog trainers, maybe with motivation on the business side of things. so I'm gonna ask a few fun questions there, hopefully.

Eric Stanbro (26:08)

Mm. Okay.

Lianne Shinton (26:11)

What's a lesson from law enforcement that unexpectedly made you a better businessman?

Eric Stanbro (26:21)

I have as a law enforcement think about this, as my time as a cop, I got really good at talking people into and out of a lot of things. You know, like I find that those of us who were good at our job at law enforcement are better or not better, but very good at dealing with clients and kind of getting through to them a little bit. Like I really when I'm talking to a client on their go home lesson, I

I'm really trying to I if I can get them to cry even, I'm doing good. Like not mean cry, but but understanding the importance of their relationship with their dog, right? But I've spent years talking people out of suicide, talking people out of all kinds of stuff, talking people into not attacking me, you know, talking people to drop a gun that they have. So I think that kind of human psychology stuff.

Like I was

Lianne Shinton (27:14)

Yeah.

Eric Stanbro (27:14)

really a study in human psychology. I really am fascinated by it. I applied that there. So that helped me when it came to client relations. It does not make me a better businessman, though. You know, that doesn't mean just even if you were a captain at your police department doesn't mean you know anything about running a business, but you probably know how to deal with human beings.

Lianne Shinton (27:37)

Yeah, and can help you that emotional intelligence can help you in sales as well as in coaching. So I think that's a huge asset.

Eric Stanbro (27:46)

Mm-hmm.

Lianne Shinton (27:48)

okay, so next question here. You've developed handlers as much as dogs. What's harder to train? Dogs or humans?

Eric Stanbro (27:58)

I think we know the answer to that question. the handlers don't bite me, but

Lianne Shinton (28:00)

Yeah.

Eric Stanbro (28:04)

they're yeah, you know, it's sometime my my my co host says, you know what, he t he's told some people he's like, There's there's a lot of different jobs that you could be doing in law enforcement. Maybe this isn't for you. it's hard like if a person really is doesn't have any athletic ability or or

Hand-eye coordination or the the ability to do things with the leash. And so I do a lot of my seminars and I make it difficult for them with the leash, right? I have them working the dog on a long line with the remote in the same hand as the leash and with food in the other hand. boy. I've had guys like, I'm on my third dog and I feel like a brand new guy, right? but it's

When in police work, the police dogs are easy because of their motivation,

Lianne Shinton (28:59)

Yeah.

Eric Stanbro (29:00)

right? They're motivated by food, scratch on the head, toy. They're they're just motivated to work. Some of the guys are not, though. They're just it's hu it's they're human. You're not going to get 100% of type A personalities that are ready to work, work, work, work, work and try to learn and try to move forward. So that's the problem when it comes to dealing with the handlers. Some of them I've had, dude, I've had handlers at my school that were falling told.

To be there. That's not good. That's that's a guy who doesn't really care. Now I'm trying to rev him up and let him understand, dude, you're the tip of the spear for your department. They need you, right? The dog knows. He's like, Yeah, I'm it, man. I'm gonna do my thing. Ain't nobody over here any better than me. But some of the handlers are in canine because they wanted to take home car. Some because it's a better schedule.

Some because they wanted to do it since they got on the job or that's why they got in the police work. Those motivated guys. So the dogs are mostly consistent. The handlers not so much.

Lianne Shinton (30:03)

Yeah, I would say that definitely checks with what I hear from a lot of dog trainers, myself included, that working with the humans is

Eric Stanbro (30:10)

Mm-hmm.

Lianne Shinton (30:11)

more challenging.

Eric Stanbro (30:14)

And and

the thing is you as you know, the reason why it's better for us to do the training than just to show a few things to the owners and do it because they are busy. We're busy doing that. Dog stuff. They're busy with kid in baseball, soccer, lacrosse, this thing, that thing, family problems, their job, that job. And so that's why it's, you know, even after the training it's a little tough for them.

Lianne Shinton (30:38)

Yeah, and I would think that's you know, I like everybody learns in a different way. Some people maybe they like to read it, they listen to an audiobook, they watch a video, they've got to see you do it first. I'm like that, very visual. other

Eric Stanbro (30:52)

Mm-hmm.

Lianne Shinton (30:52)

people like they've gotta try it a number of times to get it right. I I'm like that too. So I think like you said earlier, understanding people and knowing how to help them, that would really help in your coaching as well.

Eric Stanbro (31:07)

Yeah, and that's the thing. If you're gonna be in a dog trainer, you know, we get a lot of people that say, I'm in the dog training because I don't like people. I like dogs. Well, dogs don't

Lianne Shinton (31:14)

Mm.

Eric Stanbro (31:15)

write checks and dogs don't have credit cards. So you need to you gotta learn how to teach. You gotta learn how to public speak. You gotta learn, like you're saying, coaching. when to apply a little pressure on the person, when to back off, when to how to okay, so this person has two left feet. How are we gonna work with this person?

This person was a Division I athlete and can fly through the air and his f footwork and handwork is amazing. So you, you, it's not about if you're gonna be a dog trainer, you're a human trainer who has a dog.

Lianne Shinton (31:50)

Yes, agreed. Yeah. I got into this because I love dogs, but very quickly I gotta learn that people are the ones that are bringing the dog for that training and

It's i I think it's it's kind of awesome what we can do and how we can help a family.

Eric Stanbro (32:09)

Mm-hmm.

Lianne Shinton (32:09)

So yeah, that becomes became something that I really leaned into and and I was like, this is kind of cool, even though I I don't think I like people, I kind of do because I can help a family.

Eric Stanbro (32:21)

Mm-hmm, for sure. And it's that you know that that time when they're like, I can't believe this. Like I can't believe he's doing this. I can't

Lianne Shinton (32:28)

Yeah.

Eric Stanbro (32:29)

believe we've been over here fifteen minutes, he hasn't gotten up. I can't believe I'm not getting dragged down the street. I can't believe I can't listen, that stuff is awesome.

Lianne Shinton (32:39)

Yeah. Yeah, I love that stuff. What is a small thing that makes life way better?

Eric Stanbro (32:51)

Love

really. Just

Lianne Shinton (32:52)

Mm.

Eric Stanbro (32:53)

love of family, love of people. You know, I get that through so a lot of people that know me from back in my my police side would be and listening to me talk and when they see me, I'm I mean, I can be pretty harsh and you know, I go to jujitsu and I fight and I'm doing all this other stuff all the time. But I got baptized about f eight months after I retired. I'm

big lover of Jesus Christ and part of that is you know showing love to people and trying to be and it's really changed me. I was when I retired was a very, very angry person. I have a tattoo. I don't do you do YouTube. Is it is this so if they can see

Lianne Shinton (33:33)

Yeah. Yes, yeah.

Eric Stanbro (33:35)

this this tattoo on my arm of this big angry person right there, that's

Lianne Shinton (33:40)

yeah.

Eric Stanbro (33:41)

me. That represents me when I retired. Angry at

The administration of the police department, which is a problem all over the country. I had a great job and I still retired when I could. I could have stayed longer, miserable. I had a traumatic brain injury from a motorcycle crash, which caused me some problems. PTSD probably from the work. I was involved in a lot of shootings and a lot of things and saw a lot of crappy stuff. And I still don't, you know, express that all that much. so when I when I got

When I got baptized and gave my life to Jesus, then I my tattoos changed. I have like doves and you know, a lot more soft things, a lot less death and crazy stuff. You know, my I have a full suit, like my whole body is covered in in tattoos. And so for me, that like that small thing, and it's not really a small thing, I guess, but I'm trying to be more like compassionate and thoughtful to people.

helping some folks if I can. You know, I don't I'm not a millionaire. I I can't just give out tons of money, but I'm, you know, I'm trying to help some folks. so I think love and and being able to help is is really a small thing for me, but a huge thing for somebody else. And I think that's a big deal if you kind of change the way you're you're viewing some stuff. Doesn't mean I love everybody and doesn't mean people drive me nuts. I f I fly a lot and the airport's very frustrating.

I see people in there. I'm like, you act like you've never been out in the world, like ever in public before. you know, I was going

Lianne Shinton (35:15)

Ha ha.

Eric Stanbro (35:15)

through, I go through TSA pre-checks. That's people who fly all the time, and still people with big bottles of water in their bags. I'm like, my God. But try to give them some grace. Maybe they forgot, you know, that type of stuff. my wife doesn't believe that. She says I the airport set me off, but so, anyways, that was a long answer to say. It's really kind of like

Just love and compassion is is and there's people I'm I'm telling you listen to this right now going, Eric? Really?

Lianne Shinton (35:48)

I like the significance of you know putting the tattoo on your body. I know a woman who was a victim of domestic violence and she has a phoenix on her arm and it's that rise of rise

Eric Stanbro (36:00)

Hm. yeah.

Lianne Shinton (36:01)

of the phoenix. And, you know, I I think that something so pivotal to to mark your body with it, that's pretty powerful reminder.

Eric Stanbro (36:10)

Yeah, a whole huge part of my rib cage and my chest and my side is is dedicated to the Bible, stuff like that. You know, there's it's like a lot. So and I'm I am in no way a theologian. I don't really know I we're we're getting off topic, but I'll say something real funny. I went to my my pastor right right when I started realizing that I probably needed some help. And I thought that the New Testament was a rewrite of the old testament. That just tells you how

how far off I was. And I actually asked him, 'cause you know they talk about the the father, son, and the holy ghost. The train I said, So if you have the father and you have the Holy Spirit, is Jesus just the middleman? I didn't get the whole concept of who he was. And he's like, no, no one's ever asked me that question.

Lianne Shinton (37:00)

That's funny. You mentioned airports, and I'm

Eric Stanbro (37:04)

Mm-hmm.

Lianne Shinton (37:04)

sure you've traveled all over and you've obviously been to Africa. If you could go to one place for a

Eric Stanbro (37:18)

I think I think Australia. I think I would like to go to Australia. It would have to be a little more than a week 'cause it's like three days to get there. But you know, if I could go, I think that's that's a I don't have a bucket list, so to speak, but that's one place if I'm thinking about I'm like I really want to try to get there. And obviously actually there's a lot of listeners to my show from Australia. We can see where the demographics are from. Australia and New Zealand. And I've had a lot of their guests

A lot of handlers on my podcast from Australia, and they're always come on out, man. We'll give you a great time. Come on out. Come on out. And I'm like, Yeah, maybe someday.

Lianne Shinton (37:54)

So w the reason to go to those places is the people or

Eric Stanbro (38:00)

Yeah, the people and I just want to see it. You know, I I've never heard anybody come back and go, Well, that sucked.

Lianne Shinton (38:05)

Yeah.

Eric Stanbro (38:05)

You know, never. The flight maybe, but but I've done like I flew to Dubai, which was fourteen hours. I flew to Africa, which is like same fifteen, fourteen, fifteen hours. It's still I think twelve more hours or ten more hours to Australia. So that part would stink, but you know what? You get used to it.

Lianne Shinton (38:28)

what's your f the favorite place that you've ever been?

Eric Stanbro (38:32)

we go well so we go to Aruba every year. We my wife and I have a timeshare there. She had it when we met. so she started going there in nineteen ninety nine, I think, or maybe two thousand. we go every year in September. It is I know every inch of that island. we rent a car, I can drive everywhere. It's super safe. I've been I think in every neighborhood in there. I've sold them police dogs. I've worked with the police guys there. The place is so amazing.

Africa was pretty hard to top though, man. That was it was right up there. Like if if this coming September, if they're like, Hey, you want to go back to Aruba or Africa, we might be out in the in the safari. It was it was unbelievable. It's just so expensive.

Lianne Shinton (39:17)

Yeah, yeah. Galapagos is on my list. I love seeing the animals

Eric Stanbro (39:20)

Yeah.

Lianne Shinton (39:21)

and that's definitely a expensive one.

Eric Stanbro (39:25)

Mm-hmm.

Lianne Shinton (39:25)

What's something that most people don't know about you?

Eric Stanbro (39:30)

Well, this thing I just said about my relationship with Jesus Christ, most people don't know. They I you know, you're supposed to kind of go out and make disciples. I don't really do that. I'm kind of uncomfortable with that a little bit, but if you came to my facility and I have speakers all over the place. So I have there was two places where we have the pet dogs and then here at the fun house where I do the police work, speakers all over the place. And I connect my phone to it and I like listening to music. And my playlist is insane. It's all over the place. But people were shocked when

Brandon Lake or one of the, you know, contemporary Christian artists come on and I sing it and I know all the songs and I can really, you know, I'll belt it out. I'm terrible, but I doesn't matter. and at my at the pet facility, I I don't care who's in the room if that song comes on, that song's playing. I don't skip it, you know. I'm more apt to skip some of the hardcore rap that I have on that I've been listening to for 30 years, you know. But yeah, so that I think that would be what people are surprised the most.

Lianne Shinton (40:30)

Excellent. And what's a hill that you're willing to die on? Like there's just something that you believe in so strongly that you'll argue for it every time.

Eric Stanbro (40:42)

integrity when it comes to people that are involved in the police dog business and and even in the pet pet dog business, but in the police business especially, because there's some folks in the police business, police dog that are vendors or sell equipment or own magazines and have conferences that are sex offenders, convicted sex offenders.

criminals, people with criminal backgrounds, I don't think should be doing business with police departments. and where the integrity so I don't blame them. They're trying, right? They're doing their thing, like especially the guy who's this sex offender who has a massive impact on this industry. people the problem is the police officers and their supervisors that know he's a convicted sex offender and still give him money. I will die on that hill. I've been

Preaching and preaching against him and that whole situation for years on not largely deaf ears, but a lot of deaf ears. So like he he has an equipment company. He's his stuff is not permitted in my building. If you show up, it's gotta stay outside. You're not bringing that thing with his name on it in my building. I'm not supporting him. I don't I do a lot of social media posts and stuff. There is none of that stuff you'll see in my videos and pictures. I won't ever

Ever give him any grace. I won't ever and and you go do something else. Don't don't be in the law enforcement realm. You're you're a convicted sex offender, but guys gotta stop buying stuff from this person. And so that's that's my big thing is integrity in this line of work is pretty tough. I always say integrity is not a huge word, but apparently it's very large to define.

Lianne Shinton (42:31)

Yeah, no powerful answer. Thank you for sharing that.

Eric Stanbro (42:35)

Mm-hmm.

Lianne Shinton (42:36)

what is a goal that you are quietly working towards?

Eric Stanbro (42:41)

Retiring,

like retiring, retiring. I don't say much about it, you know. I'm fifty six. I'll work for a while, you know, I and I'm not in a hurry, but I would really like to I I can't relax. Like I'm not gonna sit at the house, but I would like to not, you know. So for me, for example, when I have pet dogs assigned to me. So when I'm in town from my seminars, I get a bunch of pet dogs to train. I train seven days a week.

I get up early Saturday morning, I go up to the county. It's 30 minutes away, 35 minutes from my house. I'm there all day, usually by myself, play music, work the dogs. Back there on Sunday, I go up early in the morning so that I can get done and get down to church. And listen, I live at a lake. I live on the water. Like we have boats. Boating is great. But I also have a responsibility. I got to get some reps in on these dogs. I can't sit at home and let the dog sit up at the facility, not get in work. I can't stand it. but I would like to not be like that. Right? I would like to

financially get to a spot where I can retire because I retire from the police department at a low pension, like a base pension. And I just invest all I don't even use spend the money. I just invest it. also, and I'm not having been super quiet about it, but I am so tired of winter, I'm gonna start snowbirding a little bit, I think. January,

February, March next year, we're gonna be in my wife and I just gonna go to Florida, stay there for a few months, work with my buddy who's got a ridgeide location down there. And

contract for him, I'll make money, he'll make money. But this last winter, I'm sure you guys, we got the worst winter that I have ever remembered. Minus twenty for a week

Lianne Shinton (44:16)

Mm.

Eric Stanbro (44:17)

and a half, which is not normal in Ohio. Snow above up to my thigh. I'm like, I am over it, man. Done with it.

Lianne Shinton (44:25)

Yeah, yeah, I'm with you there. I got away from the Toronto winners and never looked back. So yeah, we're working our way to Florida as well.

Eric Stanbro (44:33)

Nice. You

guys got wind, like real cold wind over there, don't you? Is it?

Lianne Shinton (44:38)

I've I've just been in, I'm in Kansas right now and

Eric Stanbro (44:41)

Mm-hmm.

Lianne Shinton (44:42)

helping my friend at her facility. And so it's kind of new to me, but we get tornadoes here. Yeah.

Eric Stanbro (44:48)

Tornadoes, yeah, yeah.

Lianne Shinton (44:49)

And in the night I'm like hearing the tornado sirens going off, and I'm like, do do I need to do something? Like what what is happening? Yeah. So I'm texting,

Eric Stanbro (44:55)

Yeah. W what does that mean? Yeah, right. Hmm.

Lianne Shinton (44:59)

like, do do we need to do something? but yeah, it's it's kind of interesting. so you mentioned retirement.

And I believe that you've been working on selling a business. Would you mind sharing about that?

Eric Stanbro (45:14)

Yeah. So I I started doing pets on the Van S canine site. So I was doing pets and police dogs at the same time under the Van S banner. And then I started realizing that I was having like advertising issues. Like a a a a pet owner would go to my Instagram and it's me getting bit and all the police dog stuff. And I'm like, well, I don't need that, right? But then a a lieutenant from a police department would go to my Facebook page and it's me with a, you know, a Frenchie.

They're like, well, this guy obviously doesn't do police work. so there was some, you know, things like that. So I got my buddy Aaron Taylor, who if you've probably heard me talk about if you've listened to me talk about tone avoidance, he kind of coined that term tone avoidance, and he's been my mentor on the e collar and that type of stuff. And he wrote a thing in my book for me. he owns Ridge Side Canine Corporate. He's it's his company. So we're a technically like a franchise of of his company. We have Ridge Side Canine Ohio.

Well, I got the Ohio name from him in 2019, 2018, maybe. I think it was 19. And I didn't do anything with it. And then 2020 started kind of working under that banner and then opened up a different location under Ridgeide K9, Ohio, for sure, in 2021. And grew that business, really became friends with a lot of guys because of it and everything. And then

I just sold the business end of the year or big January first, to a guy named CJ, who's one of my guys who was a police canine handler, left law enforcement, was working for me, and he's 20 years younger than me. And one day he's like, So, like, what are you doing? It was this Saturday I was in there doing Kennel tech work because the Kennel Tech called off. And he's like, So what are what are you doing? Like, how long are you gonna own this? You trying to you don't wanna leave eventually? I'm like, more than anything, actually.

And he says, You want to sell it? I'm like, Yeah, I don't even know what that looks like. But it took us about four days to come up with something. And so I sold it to him and now we switch places. He runs the business. I work for him. So I just come in, work, work dogs, handle leashes where I'm happier. I was just happier doing that and and then running a business because I'm telling you, as as mean as I was on the street, because where I worked was nothing but criminals.

There's really not a ton of great people. It's just all thieves and the working poor and drug addicts.

They I I'm soft on employees. I give chance after chance after chance and I've been screwed over in a frustration and you know, I had a trainer that I kept on so long and then I ended up having to do like ten redo boarding trains on her because she lost her mind and it's just real frustrating stuff like that. And when would I was just happier with a leash, food, and music.

You know, just doing my thing 'cause don't talk to the dogs a ton. I just I don't have this big dialogue with them. I just talk their commands and everything. so yeah, he took over. And if you I also believe that if you have a s small business, you should probably build it and sell it. move on to something else or start a new one or something like that. And then so what we did was I carry the note for the business. So he

W he pays me a payment plus interest for the next five years. So that's, you know, income. And that's not enough for me to live on, but it's enough to pay some bills and things like that. Now, if you could build up a I don't know, two million dollar business and you sold it and you kept the note, boy, you could you could do pretty good just sitting there at home getting that as your salary every month. So yeah, I sold it and we're happy. I'm happy. I'm not there kennel teching. I don't have to

Leave my phone on on a Sunday in case something bad happens. And I give and I'm one of those people I just I refuse to be outworked. So I'm in the building. I still find myself I was doing it today. I was helping scrub out crates and doing some things and because I had a few minutes and there was stuff that needed done, right? And so that's in my nature, but yeah, l I'll let him handle it from here on out.

Lianne Shinton (49:40)

Yeah, I I think it's great and I love like being an entrepreneur but having that goalpost so that you can kind of avoid a bit of burnout because you're like, well, I have this great goalpost. And you know, yeah, it's hard. it's a lonely space up here running this thing, but then maybe opening a second location and creating like this great goalpost. So you're like, okay, I'm grinding here, but I'm working towards that goalpost and that

Eric Stanbro (50:09)

Yeah, and you have

to be careful because so we grew, in my opinion, I grew too fast. we really started growing like most pet dog training businesses, during COVID. People sat at home and I tell everybody, you know, you're all nervous, you don't know what happened, what's going on with the world. But Tiger King was on for eight hours and you sat on the couch and touched your six year old normal dog and petted them into insanity. And now all of a sudden you have this this

Dog that has separation anxiety and anxiety and other things, and now is leash reactive because you became a litter mate instead of that dog's leader. So we, we, we grew quickly. I went from just me and the another trainer to like three or four. That was under the Van S. When we switched to Ridge Side, Ridgeide Canine system of marketing, Google, the way we do things, the support from the the whole team, the way we use the customer related, the CRM, you know, the electric.

The the computer stuff and all that, we exploded. I went to 12 trainers with like in three months.

Lianne Shinton (51:12)

Wow.

Eric Stanbro (51:12)

And then we were never booking out. I always had room because I had 12 trainers. Well, then, you know, I fired a trainer. Then I fired another trainer after 9,000 warnings, you know, and me giving them so much grace. And then fired another one and fired another one. And there don't grow trainers on trees.

But what happened was we built the business up so much that I now was not training dogs. I can't I couldn't. I had to deal with this business. I'm hustling and hustling because you know, every three, four days, a thousand dollars comes out to Google. And we know how, you know, all this ad stuff goes. And I'm moving and hustling and doing all this stuff and helping with the business because the if you have a building, it's a whole entity among itself. Like it's a living, breathing thing. we had full daycare. I had 70 dogs in the building. It was just

Crazy, but I got away from what I loved, which was holding the leash, transforming dogs, which I'm very good at if I have to speak on my own behalf. So when you're running the dog business, if you you can grow at your rate, you don't need a facility. You don't have to. You can have some crates in your basement. we have basements over where I'm at. I don't know think Kansas probably does too, because of tornadoes, but

Lianne Shinton (52:24)

I I know what a basement is, yeah. Yeah.

Eric Stanbro (52:28)

But we have you can have crates in your basement, and you and a couple other people can make good money, be successful without the huge overhead. But maybe that's what you want. Maybe you want to grow into this large place and own a second location, but you open that second location. You're not a dog trainer anymore. You're the business owner. And, you know, I ask, I ask people on my podcast all the time. I'm like, like that are big in the business. I'm like,

Do you get to you ever get to handle a leash? You ever get to mess with a dog? And they're like, nah, not not too much. N not not that much. And they all like drift off and look and like of times gone past, you know? So that's the thing. It's like I got I got to the point where I wasn't happy because that's not who I am. I wanted to be in there, you know, doing doing the dog training.

But then again, dog trainers, if you know if you're doing dogs, it's 24 hours a day, seven days a week. There's no break. You have to block off your calendar to take a vacation. And guess what? There's no pay. You're not on vacation time. No dog, no pay. But you say you have a good day, you're training. Maybe I go out on the boat at the lake. I come back. I don't care what time it is. I don't care what's been going on throughout the day. have dogs. And before you know it, you

Lianne Shinton (53:49)

Yep. That's the job.

Eric Stanbro (53:52)

got.

'Cause 'cause then what happens is you know, hey, you have a client, could you board my dog? I'll pay you 50, 60 bucks a night, whatever. And that's easy money, right? Create and rotate. And then all of a sudden you're like, How do I have eleven dogs in my house? My house is two thousand square feet. Why, why do I have thirteen? You know what I mean? Because the money's easy and the money's there and it's very consistent and the pet owners pay and they show up and but so there is you like you said, the burnout is a real thing. And that's why like

They say in the dog industry, if you get past year three, you're gonna stay. Year three seems to be a make or break. Like, I can't do it. I

Lianne Shinton (54:31)

Hm.

Eric Stanbro (54:31)

want to go do something, especially if somebody's in like their 20s or early 30s and they're like, I got, I can do anything. I just don't want to clean poop anymore. You know what I mean?

Lianne Shinton (54:42)

Yeah.

Eric Stanbro (54:44)

So I always tell people, and I my whole big thing is I always when I'm talking about my training, when I'm talking in my book, my seminars, I always talk about the.

The

things that I did based on my mistakes. I don't say that I invented this great company went out just killed it. That's not real, right? Like I built it and we killed it. But I also spent seventy thousand dollars of my own money out of my bank account to pay my employees when they got shut down from COVID. I paid them out of my pocket. That's seventy thousand. Now I'm in debt because of doing that for them.

So eventually what happened is I had a business to employ people instead of a business to make money. If that makes sense. Like everyone

Lianne Shinton (55:28)

Yeah. yeah.

Eric Stanbro (55:30)

is making money but me. And so that's when I realized, yeah, I suck at business. Like I'm really good with people. I'm good with the some some essences of the business, but I'm not ruthless enough. I'm not firing fast enough. I just, it's not for me. But dog training was.

and then

Lianne Shinton (55:51)

Yeah.

Eric Stanbro (55:51)

going forward, Ridgeide Canine, we're gonna do a huge expansion nationwide. We have like nineteen locations right now. We want about a hundred and fifty. So

Lianne Shinton (56:00)

Nice.

Eric Stanbro (56:01)

we're gonna do me and two other guys plus Aaron are the the executive board and and the CO of the company, all five of us. And we're gonna be doing this national expansion. And for Ridgeide, you have to the the the

To or to own a ridgeide you have to be former military or first responder, like current or former. I I discourage current from owning a location because, you know, if you're working, say, eight, tens, twelves, whatever, it's tough. We we end up you end up not having enough time to work the dog and then you're pressed and you know, that type of thing. It doesn't work out. But if you were, you know, if you're a military veteran, Aaron, you have to be one of those for Aaron to give you a location.

So that's just his

Lianne Shinton (56:49)

That's cool.

Eric Stanbro (56:50)

he was a Marine. He was a Marine and a longtime police officer and a full time canine handler on SWAT and everything. So he's passionate about that. So it's gonna be our big nationwide thing. And then we get a piece of the company that'll be I think that's gonna be the retirement when build it up and then maybe be able to step out, but I'll probably be seventy. So

Lianne Shinton (57:11)

I like I like that you're thinking about that and you're very creative. I find that for me I'm a very creative person. So I have all of these different ideas and I get running in different directions. And then it's hard to really say, focus on this one because it's going

Eric Stanbro (57:28)

Mm-hmm.

Lianne Shinton (57:29)

to be the that thing that's gonna help you to get towards retirement. And that's where for me I realized DocTraders needed.

software to help them because I needed software to help me and I couldn't find the right software so I had to build it and then started testing it and working with dog trainers, you know, beta testing and growing from there. As I evolved in that, I stopped dog training, which was kind of nice because I got the break, but man, I did miss it and now I'm here helping my friend and

be able to go in there and walk the red card dogs. I feel like it's a it's a gift I have that I can walk these

Eric Stanbro (58:16)

Yeah.

Lianne Shinton (58:17)

asshole dogs that want to murder me. But

Eric Stanbro (58:19)

Mm-hmm.

Lianne Shinton (58:20)

you know, I know just enough to not get messed up by them. And yeah, it's it's it's a pain in the butt, but I miss it. And even though it is a hard job, you know, it's nice to take a break so you can really appreciate and what

What we do, we love what we do.

Eric Stanbro (58:41)

Yeah, I agree. and that's good, you know. I I always I always think about like all the things I invented that I never did anything with.

Lianne Shinton (58:50)

Yeah.

Eric Stanbro (58:50)

You know, and then I'll see it and go, Man, I thought of that four years ago. What would you do about it? Nothing. I didn't have any money

Lianne Shinton (58:56)

Ha ha ha

Eric Stanbro (58:58)

to do, you know. Like I had come up with a training documentation app years ago in my mind and I started shopping it around and I have twenty some thousand dollars to build the app. Well now with AI, that's not really as much.

Expensive wise, but and then other companies came out with it. So

Lianne Shinton (59:17)

Yeah.

Eric Stanbro (59:17)

I tell people, remember, if you come up with something, there's a guy just like you who's also coming up with the same thing. Is he gonna be the first one or the second one? You know? I it's the same thing if people want to travel and they wanna do things or they they're you know, one of our trainers, she was looking at a house she wants to buy and she's like, Yeah, she's nervous about pulling the trigger. And I told her the other day, I said, My new motto is die with memories and not dreams.

Lianne Shinton (59:46)

Mm.

Eric Stanbro (59:47)

So if it's your dream, make it a memory before you die.

Lianne Shinton (59:50)

Guy with memories, not dreams. That's that's a great saying. yeah, and you know, I think like with the book, with you getting on the road, doing seminars, you getting involved working with the police dogs, like taking action is something that a lot of people aren't gonna do. and you've done it so and now creating all of these different locations, though that's that's taking action.

Eric Stanbro (1:00:19)

Yeah,

I I think it's gonna be like, you know, there's a lot of guys and girls that are at at the police department right now who are super frustrated and they got into it as a dream, you know, they wanted to be a cop and some things just you know, it's it's a fairy tale sometimes. It's it's a it's a rough job, right? we don't like in the city I worked in, there's you're not really helping anybody. You don't get that much of a chance to help you, it's just enforcement mostly.

Until you become like a detective or something where you can actually help like victims and things like that. And I'm not saying look, a a lady gets beat up by her husband and I go find that dude and arrest him. Sure, I'm helping her. But just it's just like p maybe even probably temporary. But there's the people that are super frustrated, but they they get stuck and they can't leave, right? They got that government paycheck, the insurance keeps everybody.

Right.

And then they get focused on the pension if you have a if you work at a place that has a pension. And they're miserable. Like I know a buddy of mine, he got he got miserable at like three years on the job. And he was smoking like three packs a day. And and he just looked every day. You ever see that picture that they show of Ben Affleck standing outside this place? He's wearing a blue sweater and he's smoking. He looks miserable.

That was that dude. And I'm like, at a minimum, you have 22 more years

Lianne Shinton (1:01:48)

Mm.

Eric Stanbro (1:01:48)

of coming into the place that you hate. All sir, for sure, you're gonna have all kinds of problems and everything like that. So there are people listening to this right now, like CJ, who bought my business. He was working at a department. He's about 12, 13, 14 years in and was barely making a living wage. He came to work for me part-time and then eventually.

He said, Hey, could you get me enough dogs that I could quit? Because I'm miserable. I like the dogs. I don't like where I'm at. And your job is not a life sentence, right? It's okay to be happy. It's okay to leave a miserable place, or even go to another department, do something. It's okay to make that step. It's okay to it's scary. It's okay to step off into something, you know. But

Dude, pretty soon, like right after, it's he's like, This is the best decision I ever made. I'm so happy. You know, I don't have to ask permission to have a day off. I could just, you know, if I want a day off, I just schedule a day off and and he made real money. Now he's, you know, doing doing what he wants. So I just

I would just love to see people try a little bit more. Like all I wanted to do was be a cop. And I did it for a long time. And it was awesome and miserable at the same time. And so I stayed, right? Until I was done, until I was sick of it. And I made the leap and I left. not a lot of people can do that. I get it, but I don't know. I just encourage people to to try not to be miserable, you know. It yeah, not every day is a dog trainer's awesome either. We know this, right? There's there's days that

super frustrated. Like this is the third time in a week that you peed in your crate. Like what is happening? You know, why wh why what's going on with you? But overall it's, you know, I'm happy with it. So

Lianne Shinton (1:03:41)

Yeah, there's a saying, I think it was a motivational speaker named Les Brown said, and it was this guy's walking past this guy's house and the house, there's like the the deck, and the guy's out there on his rocking chair with his big old bloodhound. He's walking by and the bloodhound's like, And he's like, Why is your dog crying? And dog keeps crying and the guy says he's laying on a nail. And he's like, Well, why doesn't he just get up?

And get off the nail, and he's it doesn't hurt bad enough yet. And I thought that was, yeah, that's where a lot of us get, where it's

Eric Stanbro (1:04:16)

yeah, I like that. Yeah. I like that.

Lianne Shinton (1:04:20)

it doesn't hurt bad enough yet. And and all those creative ideas that obviously you're the type of person that get take action on, you know, that's pretty awesome. But I wanted to shift into a few more qu cool questions. if your life, if your life had

Eric Stanbro (1:04:34)

Okay. So I give a

lot of long answers and I sorry.

Lianne Shinton (1:04:39)

Well, and we kind of got chatting there. So, but

Eric Stanbro (1:04:42)

Yeah.

Lianne Shinton (1:04:42)

if your life had a warning label, what would it say?

Eric Stanbro (1:04:49)

If my li my guess, so my I'm telling you right now, my life has been insane. We me and friends and stuff talk about it 'cause I'll pull out of stories that people are like, I've known you for twenty five years. I've never heard that. And I'm like, yeah, yeah. Like I was a DJ at a strip club when I was younger. I owned a monkey. I used to work for a wrestling bear and r and wrestled a bear. All just just all kinds of I used a skydiver. Now I'm a ordained minister and I I marry people. We jumped out of airplanes with somebody and married them and just all this

crazy thing. My warning label really would be don't be boring. Like if I look at it going, stop being boring. Then I would look at it and go, okay, yeah, you're right. You're right. I'm being boring. Let's go enjoy it. You know, that would be my only real real warning label.

Lianne Shinton (1:05:41)

it that's great advice. what is something that you enjoy that most people would find boring?

Eric Stanbro (1:05:51)

watching YouTube jujitsu videos on YouTube. I'll take time, man. If it's crappy out, I'm gonna sit down and watch YouTube. And my wife will be like, let me guess. Jiu Jitsu. I go, yeah. She says

Lianne Shinton (1:06:03)

Ha ha ha ha.

Eric Stanbro (1:06:03)

it just like that too. Jiu Jitsu. I go, yeah, I

Lianne Shinton (1:06:06)

Mm-hmm.

Eric Stanbro (1:06:07)

like it. Right? I suck at jujitsu. Like most, I'm just an old man blue belt. I suck. But I'm trying not to. I'm trying to suck less and get better at it. But I enjoy it. I like watching it. And I'm watching guys do things I can't.

do right. But I'm like, I'll I'll try that. And then it fails miserably. But it's okay. Like I just

Lianne Shinton (1:06:27)

Ha ha.

Eric Stanbro (1:06:27)

like kind of that people people would definitely not like to sit with me watching YouTube.

Lianne Shinton (1:06:34)

That's funny. And if you had to rebuild your business from scratch in a new city, what would be the first thing that you'd do?

Eric Stanbro (1:06:44)

I

would well of course it would be a ridgeide location. I would I would just start small and stay small for a while. So that would be my thing. I would find even if it was just a small building that just was like a one room building with just for training, you know, just to get some training reps in.

So that I'm not training at the house or I'm whatever I have a place to go or maybe even meet clients, something small. But I we have four suites in a shopping plaza. Four. And that's a it's expensive. And but we grew and we needed it, right? I would just slow roll it a little bit further. And that's I tell you right now, the leadership team that we have put together, we all agree that when we start interviewing people that are interested, we're gonna

Tell them, hey, don't you don't need a ten thousand square foot facility. You need your house and maybe one other person and you know, but that that would be it. Start small. I would just start small and go from there.

Lianne Shinton (1:08:00)

Yeah, I'm a person that has like a very bad work life balance. And so I like to save money. So for me to run my business out of my home, have those dogs do important trains in my basement. That way I don't have the overhead of the facility because I'm running everything out of my home. I gotta pay for that anyway. So I definitely agree with that. start small and grow slow, focus on some of the

the pieces in your business that will convert. Like we started following up with people who didn't close and it increased our business by 30%. Just something stupid simple that I'd been taught by my mentors like, no, you don't need to follow up. If you didn't close them in the eval, you're never gonna close it's it's done. They're dead to you. And just like little shifts like that would be where I would focus my energy and

Just wanted to share my little bit of what I would do if I were starting over.

Eric Stanbro (1:09:00)

I like that. Yeah. Yeah, it's you're and you're right. you can be in a in a nice little market and make yourself s nice six figure income and not have a big facility. It got to the point with my place. I had my youngest daughter work there. She's twenty four now. She's a nurse in a a NICU unit at a children's hospital. She worked there all the way up to college. my

Middle daughter was there, my nieces, friends of my kids. Yeah, you know, it became a jo a place to have people have summer jobs, college jobs. And that's what we we did daycare. I do tell people if you're gonna be in the training business, don't don't you think daycare is gonna help keep the lights on, stay away from daycare. it will destroy your building and it's super crazy frustrating. We like I said, we went we we had like fifty to seventy dogs a day in there.

And

Lianne Shinton (1:09:59)

Huge.

Eric Stanbro (1:10:00)

it it's wild. It it takes over your business. And so just stay small. Stay small, make some money, grow at a reasonable pace, hire fast, fire faster. Which I didn't do, so do what I didn't do.

Lianne Shinton (1:10:16)

Well, that's that's how we learn. And

Eric Stanbro (1:10:18)

Yeah.

Lianne Shinton (1:10:19)

I like that you're able to share and not gatekeep so that maybe someone else listening can have less pain as they're navigating this.

Eric Stanbro (1:10:27)

God makes dogs

every day and there are plenty of dogs for as many training companies as you want.

Lianne Shinton (1:10:34)

Yes. What is a random experience that turned into a great story later?

Eric Stanbro (1:10:43)

Well that's a good question. I ca I keep saying that's a good question 'cause they are. You're good at that. I'm glad you developed that that part of your podcast. A random experience that turned into a great thing.

I don't know, man, like everything in my wife s my life seems random. Kind of my I'll say my wife, so

I'm gonna set the scene for you. We're I'm going through a divorce and it's the an my anniversary. We're separated, we're going through a divorce. It's my anniversary, it's January eighteenth and of two thousand three. And it's funny, I have a TBI and I can't remember where my phone is, but I remember stuff like that. So I go out to this local bar that I worked at for years. The DJ's good friend of mine, he was in my first wedding. I was a

Best man in his wedding. And I just go out to see him. And I walk through the bar. No, not even thinking. Walk over to the DJ booth. And this girl comes walking up to the DJ booth. She's Do you remember me? Now I'm on the police job at this time. And I'm just, I had a, it's winter time. I had a skull cap like real low, like this. Just in a bad mood. Didn't want to talk to anybody. she comes over. Do you remember me? I'm like, no. She goes, you know, a few months ago, the police department, our union had a golf outing, and I

I don't golf. So I was driving the beer cart. Well, there's this group of women that were playing golf, and I remember they were nuts. They were wild. she was one of the girls. So she goes, I just want to say hi. I thought that was you. And then 10 minutes later she comes dragging this girl back over with her. This is my friend. I want you to meet her. Her name is Lori. And we're like, okay, this is, you know, awkward. Neither of us were there, you know, looking for that.

But I just started talking to her and they went and danced and then I said it was nice to meet you, and they walk away. And I go, I look at my buddy JT, I go, why am I talking to you? I'm going to

Lianne Shinton (1:12:51)

Yeah.

Eric Stanbro (1:12:52)

talk to that girl. And I went down there and we just we didn't start dating immediately, but pretty close. We're both, you know, in our 30s. And, you know, when you're you're on going divorced or whatever and you're in your 30s or whatever, you kinda stop.

Screwing around as far as like taking your time, you know, I'm not wasting my time. I'm gonna go after things I want. And and we've been married. it'll be in December be 23 years. So that's a that was a super weird chance. I I met the girl on the golf course. She happened, and listen, they don't they didn't live anywhere near where we were at. They all lived about 45 minutes away. They just wanted to go to that particular place, and it's just how crazy that stuff works.

Lianne Shinton (1:13:36)

Wow. I was just gonna ask, what's a small decision that ended up changing your life? And probably her going there and and you being at that place. And yeah, that's

Eric Stanbro (1:13:43)

Going to the bar. Yeah. And I didn't

want to be there. I just, I don't know. I had nothing to do. I was pissed off because even even if you're going through divorce and you want to have the divorce, it still sucks, right? Every bit

Lianne Shinton (1:13:54)

Yeah.

Eric Stanbro (1:13:54)

of it sucks. And my my ex-wife and I have a had a daughter together and it was her birthday party that day. And I went over to my ex wife's house to see the, you know, my daughter for the birthday and ever and we always got along. Everything was cool. But I was just just pissy, you know.

And I didn't end the day that way. You know, I had a great conversation. We had fun. my wife made fun of me the entire time. Cause she's like, Do you have any hair under that hat? Cause you know, I'm wearing that thing down to here. And

Lianne Shinton (1:14:24)

Ha ha ha.

Eric Stanbro (1:14:25)

I'm like, I have a great head of hair. Yeah, she's like, I get that thrown in my face all the time. Remember when you told me you had a great head of hair? But I also

Lianne Shinton (1:14:33)

And I don't

Eric Stanbro (1:14:35)

drove a minivan at the time, so the, you know, the joke's on her.

Lianne Shinton (1:14:39)

I'm more of a glass half full person 'cause like when I had a divorce, I I did a cartwheel and yeah, I was like, I'm gonna do a cartwheel.

Eric Stanbro (1:14:46)

yeah, we were still f a few months from the f

we were a few f months from the finale, you know, of going to court 'cause the the courts love to drag those things out. But yeah, it's just I don't know. And it was probably part of my still my shitty mood that I was in from from the job. I was undercover at the time in police work doing dope work and there's no good people there.

Lianne Shinton (1:15:09)

Yeah, I bet. Ugh Well, if you could relive one day of your life, which would you choose?

Eric Stanbro (1:15:20)

when my daughter was born, my youngest daughter, that was just so great. And because we didn't know, we chose not to know. Because I always say there's really

Lianne Shinton (1:15:29)

Mm.

Eric Stanbro (1:15:29)

no real surprises in life. And so I I try to encourage everybody, don't find out, don't find out. And of course everybody does. But still that was when just I always remember. I s actually still dream about it sometimes.

Lianne Shinton (1:15:46)

is awesome. So

Eric Stanbro (1:15:46)

You know what

the funny thing is? She comes out, she comes out and I yell, It's a girl. And the doctor looked at me like, like, this is the only good thing I get to do is tell you what the sex is. And you blew it. Literally

Lianne Shinton (1:15:55)

That's funny.

Eric Stanbro (1:16:00)

snapped her head at me and went, I go, sorry, doctor.

Lianne Shinton (1:16:05)

Well, I know that we've gone over an hour here. I greatly appreciate your time. Is there anything else that you wanted to share with our listeners?

Eric Stanbro (1:16:18)

no, like

Don't

get like you talked that you use the term gatekeep. That's a great term because nothing that anybody like I didn't invent tone avoidance, you know. Aaron k coined the term and kind of the way he used it is tone avoidance. I think I've but on the police side, I've definitely taken to a whole nother level. But I again I tell everybody go out and teach. Teach it all. I don't care. I didn't invent it. You didn't invent anything in this in this realm.

don't get caught up. I I do encourage people in the dog training world to really really stay off of Facebook, stay out of the drama, stay out of the groups. Nobody cares. Nobody cares what your opinion is. Nobody cares. Something weird happens. Just give it a week. Nobody cares. Put your head down. Mind your own business. If I didn't have business, I'd be off Facebook, man, so fast. just stay out of the poison. The dog industry, as you know, is terrible.

It's terrible. there's some reprehensible people involved in here and that love to give you their opinion when it's not asked for. You know, I don't I don't do that. people always on the police side send me videos, dash cam videos and body cam videos of dogs doing certain things or the handlers doing certain things and they send it or they tag me in a forum and I never

Never criticize, even if I don't think it's all that awesome. I never criticize. I don't say anything. I don't comment. I just think to myself, well, I I probably wouldn't have done that. Or, well, I like that dog. I know he bit the wrong person, but that's a nice dog. you know, I just just stay out of the drama and just put your head down, make money. and also know that the stuff you put on your personal Facebook page will come back to haunt you in your business.

For sure it will. If you're putting in all kinds of crazy political stuff and all this other stuff, whether no matter what side of the aisle you're on, it doesn't matter. That stuff will come back. And people are scrolling through there and going, hey, I was looking at that person for dog training. She's crazy or he's nuts. What did he say? I think that guy used a racial slur there. Nope. Nope. You think it's, you know, whatever. Stay off of that stuff. Stay off of it.

Right. Tell people happy birthday on Facebook. Share your business page. You know, like, comment, and share all your posts. Keep your stuff out of there and don't and get out of the dog training forums. Get out of there. For a lot of those are really, really bad.

Lianne Shinton (1:19:04)

Yeah, the word

Eric Stanbro (1:19:05)

I got out of all of them. I was in all of them and I got out of every single one of them. And guess what?

Lianne Shinton (1:19:09)

The work.

Eric Stanbro (1:19:09)

I'm super happy. Super happy.

Lianne Shinton (1:19:12)

Yeah, I think the word poison is a great word for some of that.

Eric Stanbro (1:19:15)

Yeah.

Lianne Shinton (1:19:17)

And I miss the days when we didn't talk about politics or religion or ask a woman her age and all of that. I wish we could go back to that.

Eric Stanbro (1:19:26)

Mm-hmm. Yeah. And they just you know, in a lot of those forums, if you go on there with a like you're a good person, you go on there and you have a legit question, like I have

a question, I need some help. The first three answers have nothing to do with the question that you asked. And and I'm like when I see that, I'm like, I'm out of here. Like these people are idiots. Like, whatever,

Lianne Shinton (1:19:45)

Ha ha ha.

Eric Stanbro (1:19:46)

man. I'll see them at the airport.

Lianne Shinton (1:19:51)

and then you're gonna be the keynote speaker at the professional canine conference for canine develop dog trainer canine development in Ohio. And that's coming up this November. So that'll be a conference that folks can definitely attend to listen to you and you know learn.

Eric Stanbro (1:20:12)

Yeah,

my so I'll be doing my e-color without conflict class that I talk. I've got it down to a three hour science. it's for pets and working dogs. Like I I tell everybody I train working dogs now like I train pets. Not the other way around. I train working dogs the way I train pets because pets aren't as easy because you know, none of them will work for toys and half of them won't work for food.

You learn pressure, you learn how to use pressure, you learn how to use e-collar leash, whatever it is, and it makes you a better handler, trainer, owner, whatever. So that conference, and then there's other really good speakers. So you you have a whole gamut, right? If you're a pet dog trainer and you see me and this guy Travis who does decoy work and another guy named Mitch who does police dog sales, but he also does pet dogs, don't don't think that's not for you.

There's tons of stuff there for you. Right? We're still all pet dog trainers, every one of us that are teaching there. Even if we might be doing beat bite work and scent work and things for police dogs, we all of us train pet dogs.

Lianne Shinton (1:21:21)

Yeah, I attended last year. It was an outstanding conference.

Eric Stanbro (1:21:24)

Mm-hmm.

Lianne Shinton (1:21:24)

It was very intimate too. So a lot of just like one-on-one interactions where people are able to sit down with Travis, talk to Mitch, they'll be able to hang out with you. So it's it's just a nice small conference where everybody becomes

Eric Stanbro (1:21:39)

Mm-hmm.

Lianne Shinton (1:21:40)

like family after the first day. So I will definitely

Eric Stanbro (1:21:43)

Yeah.

Lianne Shinton (1:21:43)

share the link to that conference if people are interested. Awesome. Well

Eric Stanbro (1:21:45)

Cool. All right. Sounds

great.

Lianne Shinton (1:21:49)

Thank you, Eric, so much for joining us today. I greatly appreciate all of your stories and yeah, this

Eric Stanbro (1:21:56)

Mm-hmm.

Lianne Shinton (1:21:57)

I'm glad I asked all those crazy questions because I'm I'm sure this will be a fantastic podcast.

Eric Stanbro (1:22:04)

Yeah, I liked

Lianne Shinton (1:22:04)

Awesome.

Eric Stanbro (1:22:05)

it. I liked the the questions that let you let a person show a little bit more about themselves. So that's pretty cool.

Lianne Shinton (1:22:12)

Yeah, yeah, that was great. Thank you so much. And thank you to our listeners. I'm again I'm Lianne from Automation Talks and thanks for listening.